Carmiel Banasky on Good Energy and the Climate Reality Check Report

Carmiel: one interpretation of this data is that there is a shift from huge, epic, end of the world stories that are the climate stories we're seeing on screen, where we have one hero that saves the day, to realizing that this is an issue that affects all of us, it's not going to be some big bang apocalyptic moment.

June Ep 7 Intro: It's going to be these many, many, many small changes that lead towards totally kind of new world in the future. that everyday people are a part of and that everyday people together can be heroes and that there's not just one hero that's going to get us out of this mess.  Welcome to Story for Good, the podcast where entertainment meets impact. I am your host, June Neely. It is officially the last day of Earth Month, and what a great way to round it out than with my next guest. Carmiel Banaski wrote on the hit Amazon series, Undone, and recently was the head writer on The Last City, a near future sci fi climate focused fiction podcast from Wondery.

And is the editor in chief for good energy, a nonprofit focused on climate storytelling. In this episode, we discuss some of her projects and the eye opening climate reality on screen report that Good Energy just dropped today. I can't wait for you to hear this.

So let's get into it

June: Welcome to the show.

Carmiel: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

June: So I always start off with,you know, a little bit about your background. Like, what came first for you? Was it wanting to work in the entertainment industry? Or was it activism? Or were they kind of hand in hand?

Carmiel: great way to form that question because that's really the story is that, I've always been a writer and I've always been an activist and those two things were so separate for me. yeah, I grew up in Portland, Oregon and went to school in Arizona and studied creative writing. I was probably first activated into climate by seeing an inconvenient truth, like so many people. And immediately the next day started the solar panel club on campus and. I'm just like a starter. Other people finish things for me. But, later students, added A dollar to tuition, and now we have solar panels, and it's, something actually happened from that. but so I went into political organizing right after college, and, worked on conservation campaigns for John Kerry.

I'm really dating myself here, but, and then I moved to Mississippi, where I tried to start a Planned Parenthood, and that went as well as you can imagine. But, I learned so much. and reproductive rights was my issue for a while. and eventually I moved to New York City. I wanted to become a, a writer, quote unquote. And then quickly became a nanny and barista and everything else you do in New York while you're following your dream. but I did end up in a great MFA program in fiction at Hunter College where I started my novel. And after five years in New York, I, went on the road to writing residencies, piecing together, writing fellowships, this luxurious vagrancy. And that's where I finished my novel, The Suicide of Claire Bishop. It came out in 2015. and I thought, okay, I should probably live somewhere now. So I moved to Los Angeles where I had friends and thought, oh, I'm like on the outside of this rat race of Hollywood. I'll just write my little novels. But of course. I met so many incredible women writers here and TV writers and was quickly like seduced into this Industry and then you know through all of that. I was still doing my kind of unfocused activism on the side But it wasn't until 2017 when I went to the Arctic. I did a writing residency, an artist residency on this huge 19th century sailing vessel with a bunch of other artists and a climate scientist.

And it was the summer that Trump pulled out of the Climate Paris Agreement. And it was, then it was the hottest summer on record and every summer since has been that as well. And the sea bank nearly flooded. And I saw my first glacier calving, and it's just, it's a sound that I'll never forget.

and everything changed for me then. You know, I was seeing and learning about climate change at ground zero. And I realized that work just can't be separate. And so I knew I had to find a way to bridge these parts of myself. back in Los Angeles, there was really only a few of us.

I was, I think, writing climate into our scripts at that time, and we all found each other somehow. And then that's how I was introduced to Anna Jane Joyner, who was just starting Good Energy And around then I got my first staff writing job on the show Undone on Amazon, which was a wonderful experience, and I got to write a climate related episode for season two. And then after that, I joined the good energy team and we conceived of the playbook for screenwriting in the age of climate change, And that was launched in 2022, I believe. and, you know, because of, The climate work, and because of my writing work, I then had the opportunity to develop a climate centered sci fi audio drama with Wondry starring Ray Sehorne, The Last City, that just launched this week on Earth Day. I'd love to get into that later, and, And also the short film, that I co wrote, that has a climate mention is premiering at Tribeca this summer. So all these great things are happening and I do, you know, it's because I feel like this path kind of came together for me. It was not an easy path by any means, but it just became clear and focused that my writing life and climate life. came together.

June: Wow, I love that. the journey that you've taken with the blend of activism. It's always interesting hearing how different guests get into, the social impact space. in the Arctic, that, that. Sounds amazing. Was it, how cold was it?

Carmiel: Well, it was really the hottest summer on record there. So it was

in the 20s most of the time. So it was supposed to be colder. I was ready for it to be colder, but I have, I'm like drawn to very cold places now, even though I'm like tiny and get really cold. But you know, we learned there that there's no bad weather.

There's only bad clothing. So,it's possible, but I just love I love the extreme places, and, it feels like in those cold places, this is just a tangent, but that people really care for each other in a different way. Like, you just have to look out for your neighbors, because it's hard. and if you don't, then you're in trouble.

June: So you talked about,what brought you to good energy and working in the climate space.

and one of the great resources, which is the playbook, which is an open source digital guide to portraying climate change on screen. what was the process and creating the playbook?

Carmiel: Yeah, there was a lot of interviews, a lot of qualitative research. We interviewed, I think, 200 showrunners, studio execs, writers, everyone in the industry to see what their blocks were. Why are we not seeing more climate stories? what's the roadblock? What's the writing block? What's the writing block? So that's how we started addressing the playbook. We wanted it to be both information and inspiration. So the roadblocks that we found were that people really think that this is too political, that audiences are going to be turned off, that it's too dark, or that they had to be the expert. That they had to tell the whole climate story. So these were the ways in for us. So we realized that writers really needed to understand that. the great way to start to enter climate into your work is to start where you are. How is it affecting your life? Climate is everywhere. It is not just science . It's not something hard to understand.

It's something that's happening all around us and is part of every aspect of our lives, from housing to the, how hot the street feels as you walk down it, to jobs, to, Your makeup smearing in a heat wave, whatever it is, there's like tiny ways and really huge ways that climate change is affecting us every day. And of course, the wildfires in California were starting to get worse and worse, so it just felt like it was coming closer and closer to home.people were starting to care and realize that this is part of our reality. It's not far away. It's not in the future. so we, to that end, we started creating character profiles of potential climate characters, working with scientists to make the science really accessible and storyfiable, and we just wanted it to seem easy because it is, um, it,We also created the climate storytelling spectrum, or how to integrate climate on a spectrum.

So that could be anywhere from placement in the background, like solar panels, to, integrating it in full on climate plots. The character is driven by climate change or is an activist, like Woman at War is a great example of that.And we, have cheat sheets and things like that. And we've also, through our research, found, and especially in the report, which I'll get into, but, found that the money also says it's not divisive, that climate stories do really well, that if climate is included, Audiences aren't going to not go to the theater, so it's just not divisive.

And then of course there's all the research, especially from Yale, that shows that 75 percent of Americans are concerned about climate. It's not even 50 50. It's not divisive. Audiences care. The other, thing that we found through the USC study that we did was, that audiences feel like characters don't care about climate as much as they do, that they're just not seeing climate concerned people on screen at all, that it's not showing up in stories and there's just this disconnect.

So we're starting to, it's like showing flip phones now on TV. Like it just, it's going to feel dated if we don't have climate. in our stories. So our approach is story first. we're not trying to shoehorn anything in. We're not trying to be didactic or boring. This isn't about being preachy. It is about telling the most authentic story that you can tell.

It's about telling the story that you already want to care about and finding the intersection with climate change. And of course, we also just, released, bouncing around now, but, very excited about, the pilot, workshop we just had, where we partnered with the Hip Hop Caucus and Center for Cultural Power to create the Intersectional Climate Lens workshop, and so that really focuses in on, racial justice and climate justice and, how that can be infused into stories,In such a vibrant way and a not doom and gloom way as well.

June: I think it's a great guide for writers, for filmmakers to understand, it's not that your entire story has to be about climate, but just that, is it a part of the story? Do some of the characters, Know that it's happening. Do they care?

Do they talk about it? So I love that this is a great resource for writers and filmmakers and then speaking of you know Climate focus stories, you know your recent project The Last City, which is like a near future sci fi podcast from Wondery Which just recently dropped the first season to everyone.

and then the second season is on Wondery+.what was the process in creating The Last City?

Carmiel: Yeah, I was so excited that Wondery wanted to do a climate centered story. That was really exciting to me. So,I developed it with them, and we wanted to make a climate thriller, but it was really important that it was not doom and gloom. so many. Stories we see that center climate are disaster films or just doom and gloom. but this is a story about hope and courage. And it's really important to me that there's humor threaded throughout it, and laughter between friends, and that it's this story about hope. This woman trying to challenge the status quo and,work through her mother issues and her father issues and she falls in love in season two and there's a queer romance and so it's, all of these things are going to happen during climate change, even when, shit really hits the fan, we're still gonna feel all of the emotions that we feel now, we're still gonna have our dysfunctional families, so, That's what's important to me in my climate centered stories is how do we tell those stories of family, and also of community and collective action.

So that's also what this story focuses on. Yeah, and just to give you a brief synopsis, it's, a story that takes place, in 2072 when, some lucky people get to live in Pura, this domed, green haven, geo engineered, smart city, and everyone has this AI therapist best friend named Bell, so we Also, we're focusing in on mental health during the climate crisis, and that's one of the main solutions this climate solution city. and not an ounce of waste is,wasted, including, human waste. It's all through, used through mycelium processors, and there's a rainforest dome, and, a dome. For the museum of human experience to commemorate what's been lost. and so it's this seemingly perfect place. but of course. as someone smart once said, what's a utopia for one person is a dystopia for another person. the story follows Demetria, this young woman, PR fixer for the city, and she stumbles on this dark secret that kind of underpins the existence of Pura. And she has to decide if she's going to rebel against her home and this place that's protected her, and join, join forces with the communities that are being harmed.

June: And how was this process different than working on a TV show like Undone?

Carmiel: well I do think that audio is, kinda still a new frontier in a way. Um, well, had radio plays forever and I love the old BBC radio plays but I think the process is kinda new to Hollywood. So,we sort sort of replicated a TV room experience, but like crunched into two weeks. So I ran a small writer's room for two weeks and we came up with this enormous sci fi world.

I don't know how we did it. I'm really proud of us. The other writers, were Lindsay Gelfand, John Roessler, and Lex Edness. And they're amazing. And then of course, you're really only thinking in sound. it's a writers and actors medium. It's rather than a visual medium. And I think that audio lends itself so perfectly to climate stories because you can build these huge worlds without the huge overhead and you can imagine whatever you want to imagine and it can come to be through incredible sound design.

Steve Bond was our sound designer and Nicholas Jackson was the director just a Really amazing team. So it was a wonderful collaborative experience with, some bumps along the way, but we're all just learning. And, I would encourage people to think about audio is as a great way to integrate climate.

And then it was so awesome I work for a Good Energy consults on, my audio drama. So Elisa Petrosova came in to consult with us. She met with us weekly in the writer's room and we asked her all sorts of questions and she brought in incredible experts and futurists. yeah. And it was a chance to see that kind of every question that we had about the future does relate to climate in some way.

So we were even thinking about, what's the future of flash drives? And,so thinking about what kind of material would be used in the future when there's crazy heat waves. And, what is resilient enough, what materials? And so everything is subject to climate change. And what good energy does is It takes a comprehensive climate lens to every aspect of the world building. So Elisa created this huge lookbook for us, where we got to think about clothing and AI and food and waste and indigenous solutions and, all sorts of things, anything we could imagine. And we tried to put as much of it in the show, and I wish we had like a bunch of outtakes, because there's so much in there that didn't make the cut.

But, it was a great experience.

June: I also love that you had all these different kind of fractions to show how each group was affected. Like you had the Pura citizens, you had the Neo, you had Last City, and then,Hopefully this isn't a spoiler, but like in the second season, you have another city that you show that's like a little bit different and how that they live as well.

So it was interesting to see that because we always talk about intersectional environmentalism and how, it affects different groups different ways.

Carmiel: Exactly. And I wanted, especially with the group that we meet in season two, to be fully, Intersection and all the ways that all the solutions that they choose to employ. and that was a way to explore the idea of protopia. So I'm really interested in that. And I feel like that's the way we're heading it.

It's not dystopia is not utopia. It's imagining a future that is plausibly better where we can incrementally work towards a better future. so that was just a wonderful way to investigate that and to have young leaders and that in that group of people and, young women of color leading the way and, yeah, it was just exciting to be able to imagine we wanted.

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June: So what aresome of the other services that Good Energy provides along with like the consultation in the playbook

Carmiel: Yeah, we do workshops. So one of our main offerings is workshops. So we have climate lens workshop. That's our main offering.

We just at Sundance Film Festival. And, we did it for Paramount and so we do it for different studios and groups. we got to do it for the Humanitas Award winners last year. and we love to tailor our workshops. So,we have a lot of adaptations depending on the audience. For instance, for Paramount we adapted it for their shows, and we, like I mentioned before, we're collaborating with Hip hop caucus and Center for Cultural Power for the Intersectional Climate Lens Workshop.

I'm super excited about that. And we have others up our sleeves. We want to do an unscripted one. We want to do, Kids and climate one. we did one for Canadian film and TV. So I'm really excited about those to just have live interactions in person and on zoom.And we do events. we hosted a panel last year at the opening of the Hollywood Climate Summit, and, yeah, all sorts of panels and events and parties, and, and then we also do research, and, so one of our big things is offering other tools and reports,

June: So the big news, to come out today, of course, is, the Good Energy's, Climate Reality On Screen Report, which analyzes 250 most popular fictional films by IMDb ratings released between 2013 and 2022.

can you talk a bit about the basis of which this is created through the climate reality check and how it developed?

Carmiel: Yes, for sure. So we were deeply inspired by the Bechdel test, which measures gender in TV and film in kind of this fun and snarky way. So we saw that, the writers and creators that we were supporting Needed this kind of simple tool to gut check narratives if climate was in, present in their story.

And we also saw that audiences and academics and researchers also needed something simple to just measure. so the climate reality check asks whether in any story climate change exists and if a character knows it. So just those two super simple. Basic questions get at a lot of information. So with, the Colby colleges Buck lab for climate and environment. we examined 250 of the most popular films, as you said, and. The main takeaways are that climate in film is still rare, which we knew, and, but now have these tangible answers, and that it's increasing, which was really exciting, and that it's profitable. the first takeaway, that it's rare, 9. 6 percent of the 250 films passed both parts of the test, so climate exists. You know, in the background, and a character is aware of it. 12. 8 percent passed just the first part, and 3. 6 percent passed the second part. So, there is a climate aware character. It doubled in frequency in the second half of the decade. So, 8 percent of films passed between 2013 and 2017, and 17. 6 percent passed between 2018 and 2022. That's just such a promising, exciting trend to us, and we hope to see 50 percent by 2027. That's the goal that we have in mind, and it feels actually doable, which is really exciting. And lastly, well not lastly, but also exciting, is that climate in films was profitable. That's So films that passed Part 1 performed 8 percent better than, in the box office, than films that did not. Films that passed Part 2 performed 10 percent better in the box office than films that didn't. So what does that tell us? That tells us that this topic is not divisive. People aren't going to be like, oh, that has climate change, I'm not going to go to the theater. No. Climate is not divisive. Like I mentioned before, 75 percent of Americans And so many more than that around the world believe and are very concerned about climate change.

So this is not something that's going to keep people from your work. so another piece that was really the most interesting to me as a writer was the demographics. So, of the films that I've written, had a climate aware character, 9. 6 percent had a character who was aware. Of those, 69 percent were male, 65 percent were white, 77 percent were middle aged.

So most of the climate aware characters shown on screen right now are white, male, and older. This does not represent reality. This is why we call it the climate reality check . So we want to check and do a reality check on our climate narratives. So the people who are most affected and therefore the closest to the solutions and are taking action on climate change are black and brown people that is not yet reflected on the big screen. The other big takeaway, which is I'll say one more thing about that, which is a creative opportunity. Like we want these stories. Audiences want these stories. These stories are clearly out there. Beautiful moving stories. so there's this empty space just waiting to be filled. the other piece of the demographics study was, that 2 percent of films contained a character who was experiencing climate anxiety. And in reality I think, I don't have that set in front of me, but I think 75 percent of youth are frightened about the future. A huge percentage are worried about having children. They don't want to have children because of climate change. so again, there's so many, stories about climate and mental health and climate anxiety and dread that could be told that aren't being told.so those are the most exciting takeaways to me from this report.

June: One of the things that surprised me was of course, the type of films, which it was a lot of blockbuster films, and then

that, none of the top films in 2016 passed. I was just like, I was like, oh, did they, skip a year? I, like, read through it. I'm like, oh, none of these passed. Okay, well, 2016 was not a great year.

glad we moved on. Maybe,

Carmiel: when things were being greenlit for 2016, it was like 2013. Yeah. So we were in a very different moment, I guess, before Trump. Maybe it was like, who knows? Yeah. You should do like a research paper on what was happening. Like, was it a complacency during that time?

And then as soon as 2016 happened, we're like, Oh no.

June: maybe we felt a little bit more optimistic because Obama was in office, we were like, you know, things might be fine.

uh,

Carmiel: possible. Very interesting.

June: Was there anything about the report that surprised you that you weren't expecting to see?

Carmiel: I think it was just exciting to see or exciting or terrible to see, like all of our hunches verified. like we knew that intersectional climate storytelling, Was just missing from our screens, and now we have the numbers to show that, so I think just having these tangible talking points for executives and creators is really important, and, I'm just so glad that, yeah, the report, is able to give these clear talking points to people.

and you talked about, it being more profitable and then there's this, kind of difference between DC films and Marvel and DC was more apt to talk about climate change than Marvel was. And then I think about,just The climate movies that were back in my day were like, The Day After Tomorrow or Twister, which movies that I've seen so many times.

June: I feel like a lot of it was that, climate disaster type films. And then, so many of the films that passed the test were, We're like blockbuster films, but then you guys talked about how it's also leaning more towards These new type of films just talking about it as well You know what would that mean for a shift to be

Not just from the blockbuster films, but to like regular films as well

Carmiel: Yeah, I think one interpretation of this data is that there is a shift from huge, epic, end of the world stories that are the climate stories we're seeing on screen, where we have one hero that saves the day, to realizing that this is an issue that affects all of us, it's not going to be some big bang apocalyptic moment.

It's going to be these many, many, many small changes that lead towards totally kind of new world in the future. that everyday people are a part of and that everyday people together can be heroes and that there's not just one hero that's going to get us out of this mess. So I think, I find that shift from superheroes being the main, climate trend to a more, more domestic stories.really interesting.I love those superhero movies. I'm so glad that they touch on climate. And I do think it's a creative opportunity. And we're seeing more of those in the second half of the decade in the study, to just have smaller familial stories. I'm really interested in stories that Put the personal crisis up against the global crisis.

what does that look like? How do we relate to each other differently? what are our relationships going to look like in climate change? What's a rom com climate change story? So those are the stories that I'm most interested in.

June: Yeah, that definitely makes me think i'm like what is a rom com climate change story

Carmiel: Right, there's So many opportunities,you know, a couple getting stuck in a heat dome and they can't go outside, you know, that just started dating or something, what, what are they going to do?

June: Love it.yeah, and I also thought it was interesting because you touched on this you mentioned how a lot of the characters that talk about it are, white middle aged men, which,you obviously see the opposite of in real life. cause I feel like it's always that one. Like cookie, like white male scientists in the background.

so yeah, it would be great to see more, climate focus stories, Or just characters talking about it. I think of,watching Abbott Elementary, which, is

TV, of course, but, I feel like Quinta does a great job of incorporating some climate, issues just into regular story of just saying, wow, it's so hot in here.

Like, must be climate change. and then they just move

1. so I love seeing that shift of it being, More played into and I thinkas younger people move up in the industry, becoming

more execs more showrunners and the writers of the shows I feel like our own concerns are starting to filter more into the things that we write and that we create so it's I would love to see you know, your goal accomplished of 50

Carmiel: yeah, exactly. I mean, now that's such a great example of a way to not shoehorn climate, oh, Insecure also has a couple great climate mentions and just jokes. Climate can be a joke. Humor is a great way to approach climate, and, but not at the expense of it. Yeah, I think we, we used to see the climate activist being mocked. as naggy or something like that, but that trope is pretty tired, you know, and so now I think like Abbott Elementary, that joke you just referred to, I think in early in the series,the principal makes fun of Jacob for caring about climate, but then she's the butt of the joke instead. So, it also does a great job at, poking at all, all ends of

June: So where can listeners, find the report and, read the whole thing?

Carmiel: Yes, you can find the report at theclimaterealitycheck. com and, there will be a link there the whole report and I hope people check it out.

June: So with every interview I do, I always end with the same five rapid fire ish questions. Are you ready?

Carmiel: I'm ready.

June: Alright, name one TV show, film, or podcast that has had a profound effect on you and why.

Carmiel: I always go back to the movie Network, a 1970s satire about media, because it shows, the power of media as a vehicle for change and activation and collective action. And it shows the dark side, how mainstream and authority and mainstream media can so easily squash a movement by swallowing it up. So it's just, it's such an incredible film.

I highly recommend it. And, oh, can I cheat and have a couple more? uh,just in terms of, Climate centered stories. I loved First Reformed so much and really recommend that. It's a work of art by Paul Schrader. And How to Blow Up a Pipeline, more recently, is just this incredible example of how climate does not have to be all despair and doom and gloom.

It can be this exciting thriller heist.

I love those examples. what is the cause closest to your heart? And this, this may be cheating. Well, I can get, you know, underneath the climate change hood, so yeah, obviously climate change. But within that, I am getting more interested in, and diving deeper into the justice system and incarcerated people and how they are affected by climate. It's gonna, be a very important issue as , you know,severe weather hits prisons and incarcerated people are treated as second class citizens.

So I'd, it's not something that I know enough about and I really want to.

June: That's an interesting angle. I never, it's not something I usually think about. But yeah, of course they're affected as well. name one non profit you would love to lift up right now. Yeah.

Carmiel: Am I allowed to say the non profit I work for, Good Energy?

But, beyond that. Good Energy is amazing. Everyone should check it out. I'm so proud to work there. And, the other non profit is,Defy Ventures. It's the organization I volunteer with and why I became interested in the overlap of incarceration and climate.

so I go into prisons and we help incarcerated people who are going through, entrepreneur. training program with their business ideas.

June: Wow, that's really cool.if you could collaborate with anyone, who would it be?

Carmiel: so I get to collaborate with this, the most amazing people. So I'm like, I'm going to shoot for the stars and say Beyonce. I want to collaborate with Beyonce because Texas Hold'em is a climate song and she just knows what's up and how to integrate climate into just one of the best songs ever and reach millions of people with her message through just amazing music. So Beyonce, you must be listening, so please collaborate with me. I think we should create a climate music and storytelling festival. That's,

June: I love it. I didn't even think about, that is a climate song.

Carmiel: Yeah!

June: I was like, oh. I didn't even realize.

Carmiel: And she talks about how hot it is, and yeah.

June: It's amazing. And then the last one, which is a bit silly. if you could choose one song to play every time you walked into a room, what would you choose and why?

Carmiel: I guess I need to choose a Beyonce song now.

June: Oh, you don't have to.

Carmiel: no, I think I, I love that. in Russian Doll, whenever the show opens and whenever she comes back to life, that Harry Nilsson song comes on. so that, that would be it. I think just cause yeah. Oh, gotta get up. That's what it's called. Just cause it's yeah.

Cause you gotta get up, gotta keep going.

June: That song was in my head for weeks after watching that show. Cause I, I binge watched the first and second season. It's great.

Carmiel: Yeah, it doesn't go away.

June: So thank you everyone for listening to the show and thank you Carmiel for coming, and being my guest.

Carmiel: Thank you for having me. It was such a fun conversation.

June Outro: Thank you for joining me today on this episode. Story for Good is created, hosted, and produced by June Neely. For more information about the organizations or projects talked about in the show, or for media and sponsorship inquiries, visit us at storyforgoodpod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe to the show, and be sure to share it with a friend.