Kate Folb and the Hollywood Health and Society

June: Welcome to Story for Good, the podcast where entertainment meets impact. I'm your host. June Neely. Today, we will talk about Hollywood Health and Society, one of the organizations in Hollywood, who's helping writers and filmmakers tell entertaining stories while creating social impact by providing up to date and accurate information, as well as access to experts on issues like health, climate change, and human rights.

Joining me today is Kate Folb, who is the executive director at the Hollywood Health and Society. I can't wait for you to hear this discussion. So let's get into it.

Welcome to the show.

Kate: Thank you. Glad to be here.

June: So I'm always curious as to how people get their start in the social impact space. So how did it start for you,

Kate: Oh my gosh. Well, how much time do we have ? I mean, I can really go back to my childhood, but I'll make this quick. I was a latchkey kid and, came home after school, let myself in. And, my generation, uh, in the sixties, encouraged to watch tv, because TV was such a new and, interesting medium at that time.

So, I watched TV until my mom got home. I was intrigued with the medium as even as a young child. And I used to sit there and go, how do they do that? I wanna do that. You know, I, I wanted to be in TV early on. And I remember Sesame Street was launched when I was about in fifth grade or something, so still elementary school.

And I remember watching Sesame Street and saying, yes, like, that's entertaining and fun and I wanna watch it, people can learn from it. And it, it just clicked with me then really from, observing Sesame Street, how it can be entertaining and also educational.

So that seed was planted, a long time ago. as soon as I finished, undergrad school and, offered a TA position at USC, In a completely different field, which I had done my undergrad degree in Spanish language and literature. but it was a perfect opportunity for me to get to LA because I secretly wanted to be in tv.

The my father was a doctor, my mother was a hospital administrator. So it was like, no, that's not a career. You know, you be a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher, or, you know, one of those things. so it was a perfect way for me to get to LA and have a job and, scope out the TV industry, which is exactly what I did.

After grad school, I immediately went to work, a television production company. As a, production assistant, or actually I was the receptionist first at the, at the office, and that show was called Don Kirschner's Rock Concert, and that was before the invention of MTV.

What they did back in those days is they went and shot rock bands in concert and then we just put it on TV late night so people could see their favorite bands in concert. so that was my first, television production work that was really sort of music production.

And from there I worked as a PA and a, and an AD and a number of shows. Most of them had something to do with music. many of them were kind of, a combo of musical variety shows. And then I also worked on shows like American Comedy Awards So that was great. Loved it. Learned everything I needed to know about production and tv.

I got married. I had a couple of children, and when I decided to go back to work, I thought, I can't . I can't go back into production. It's too grueling. Sometimes I'm coming home at five in the morning, it just, it's not gonna work with a marriage and children. I went as a volunteer first to, help out the Scott Newman Foundation.

And the Scott Newman Foundation was a nonprofit that was founded after the death of the actor, Paul Newman's son Scott, from a drug overdose. And they started this foundation in the eighties, to work with the entertainment industry on depictions around addiction, alcohol, and other drug addiction. that was the phrase they used back in those days.

 I went just kind of, 'cause I wanted something to do, get out of the house.

So I went to volunteer for them and within a few months I was producing a huge event for them and they offered me a job. so that was sort of how I got into, this kind of work, which was working with TV shows and movies to, encourage accuracy and also in regards to addiction, to tell the other side of the story because, this is a time where there, there were movies and TV shows that were sort of, glorifying drugs, glorifying the stoner.

It was really funny to be the stoner guy, Fast Times at Ridgemont High and, you know, all those kind of movies. but we wanted to, I. Invite shows to tell the other side of, drug use, and alcohol use. that was my first sort of,foray into this field. And by then, of course, a lot of those folks that were peon little PAs with me back in the day had grown up to be writers and producers and, you know, network executives and all kinds of things.

And so I was able to kind of leverage mostly my TV connections. Of course, Paul Newman could leverage anything in the movie business that he wanted to.

And we worked with, with the creators of shows and movies on this issue. So then the AIDS crisis happened in the late nineties. Mid nineties, and on into the two thousands.

There was a lot of crossover in the beginning, with drug abuse, you know, needle exchanges and, sharing needles and all of that. started doing some work on that, but very soon, I think Mr. Newman decided he was gonna take his philanthropy to his, camps that he has, which he sponsors all over the world, summer camps for kids with terminal or chronic illnesses.

And so it was a transition time for the foundation and. I was invited to come to work for a group called Advocates for Youth, which is based in DC but they had a project here in Los Angeles that worked with the media, with the entertainment media at that time on depictions of adolescent reproductive health.

And it was mostly about sex education and things like that. And then AIDS happened and it was sort of full court press. We need to get the message out about the truths and the falsehoods about aids. And of course, was as much, if not more misinformation about AIDS going around at that time as there was about covid.

In more recent times, I mean, it was, nobody wanted to touch each other or sit next to somebody and, you know, it was just all kinds of panic. were a lot of unknowns. And so I went to work for the, for Advocates for Youth Media Project, to do a full court press with the entertainment industry to get them up to speed on the science and the realities of what was going on with AIDS and the research and the medications and prevention methods and all of those things.

And, I was grateful that the industry really embraced it. I think probably because it was hit very hard by the disease. So we worked with all kinds of shows, medical shows, teen shows, you know, shows like Dawson's Creek and Melrose Place and all of those shows that were very popular at the time, on anything to do with reproductive health, but particularly making sure that we were able to get, The information about HIV and aids, to the audience. And that continued for a long time, to the point where we were really trying to get condoms normalized on television. And this is back in the day when they wouldn't even say the word condom on tv. They were terrified of it. the political, atmosphere at the time was kind of on the conservative side of things.

And, there was a lot of, fights about sex education and what do you teach kids? And if you give kids condoms, then they're gonna go use them and you're giving them permission. And there was a huge debate about condoms. so we did a lot of work with shows to kind of just normalize that, have people just, if you're gonna have a love scene.

Have let us see him pull a condom out of his pocket or, you know, we don't have to see the graphic details, but, you know, let's in insert them into the scene.

People were terrified to do it. And in fact, there was a, there was a memo that went around Viacom at the time, that said if a woman named Kate Folb calls you and wants to have a meeting with you, don't take the meeting.

'cause she's gonna ask you to put condoms in your show.

June: Wow. They created a memo with your name in it, That’s crazy.

Kate: I wish I had it frame it and put it on on my wall. But yeah, uh, it was, it was wild. fact, I was going to a one particular, uh, sitcom. They were PSA for us with the whole cast and, and talk about safe sex and talk to your, and things like talk wasn't all about condoms, but, uh, and I was leave the office to get in my car and drive down to the studio.

And one of the producers of the show called me and said, don't come. There's a whole bunch of network execs down here. And they're, they don't want us to do it. So it was wild. Now, you know, you drive around LA and you see giant billboards of inflated condoms, you know, it's, it's so not a deal. But it was back then.

That's so interesting. especially when you talked about the whole HIV thing. 'cause I feel like my introduction to that was watching Philadelphia. Oh yes. And we, we worked on that movie and we honored it actually. 'cause we also used to give an award for, you know, brave depictions that had kind of gone the extra mile and, and Philadelphia was one of the first that we, we made an award for. Yeah,

So anyway, I started my own, consulting business, Nightingale Entertainment, which I did similar work for clients like the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, the Planned Parenthood Federation on similar issues, various pro-social or health related issues, and television depictions, public service announcements, other kinds of events and activities to, to engage the entertainment industry in those topics. And from there, I, came to Hollywood Health and Society. 2000, 2001, was when Hollywood Health and Society was first established and Marty Kaplan and, the folks that, started it, came and spoke to a lot of other groups, like the Advocates for Youth Media Project, to just sort of say, Hey, we're trying to do this thing.

And, what they were really trying to do was create an aggregate, which is what it is now, so that. The entertainment industry didn't have, 25 different organizations all knocking on their door for their one issue. And rather, Hollywood Health and Society could be this aggregate of one-stop shop, you call them and then they bring in the advocacy group, or they bring in the experts, or they bring in the people with lived experience so that it wasn't such a burden on the entertainment industry.

And of course you have to remember back in those days it was faxing and, you know, there was very little, if any internet to begin with. I remember they came and spoke to us and, and you know, we gave them advice and whatever. And I remember thinking, oh, I'm gonna end up working there one day, . I mean, there's not that many places for someone like me to go.

Lo and behold, I came to Hollywood Health and Society in 2012, been over 10 years now.so that's how I got here. So, one thing I like to say is, you know, I'm a, I'm a hippie. I'm a, I grew up in the sixties and the seventies and, you know, the motto back then was sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

And I think my, my career was that in reverse, it was rock and roll drugs and sex, you know, is how I kind of came through . But for the good, for the greater good

June: Yes,

Kate: and now at Hollywood Health and Society where, where we deal with pretty much

everything. So there you go.

June:: Wow. It's quite the journey.

Kate: I told, how much time do you have

June: But it's, it's great to hear how you got your start and how, able to kind of transition from working in production. 'cause production is hard, it's many hours and it, it doesn't make it easy to have a work life balance so that you're able to transition that into, you know, this meaningful work that's still within, is really great.

Kate: Yeah, I say, and have said for many years that I have the greatest job in the world because I get to work with the most creative people on the planet. Writers and producers and directors, and the people in the entertainment business. I get to work with really smart people, the experts in their fields, the medical experts, the researchers, the people who are really in the trenches doing the work around the issue.

And really philanthropic people like Norman Lear, bless his heart, and others who really get it and understand, the intersection that media can have with. Information and education without becoming preachy and didactic and all the rest of it. and for me, I get to watch TV and no one can judge me.

You know, my husband comes home at night and I'm in front of the TV and he looks at me and I say, I'm working like this is my job. You know? So . So I get to work with all the smart and creative people, and then I get to, I get to watch tv.

So what better job could there be.

June: Right. Exactly. can you talk about how HHS, how their approach is a little bit different than like the usual entertainment education approach?

Kate: Yes. Well, what entertainment education, I'm using air quotes here. but it really is a deliberate, it's more like what Sesame Street set out to do. many . TV shows in other countries, do a lot of, and radio in Africa and, you know, all, all over the world really, where they start with the premise of we wanna teach our audience about HIV prevention.

That's a big one in Africa and other parts of the world, which we've been a part of as well. But they set out with the premise of, okay, here's our goal. We wanna educate people on this, but how do we do it in such a way that they'll listen, they'll, be engaged and they'll learn from it. USC Annenberg, we've done studies where, we present the same kind of material. In just a documentary, not even documentary style, just a guy talking to a camera about, you know, giving you all the medical information on a certain topic. And then that same information we put into a scenario of a family around the kitchen table, and they're making tamales and the grandmother and we gauged the impact that that information had on audiences.

And of course the scenario with the family and the storytelling, had a much greater impact. People remembered the information longer than just this straightforward sort of didactic presentation. So that's what entertainment education is. It's, I wanna teach these people this thing. Now let's come up with a story or a soap opera or something that we can weave that information in the us it's not been a popular approach, because of sort of freedom of speech and freedom of expression and, and the entertainment industry, you know, prides themselves rightly so, in being we're here to entertain. We're not here to teach. so our approach in the US Hollywood Health and Society's approach has been, rather than come up with a concept for a show and then try to get an audience for it, let's go where the audiences already are.

They're watching Modern Family on Wednesday night, or they're watching This is Us, they're watching Grey's Anatomy. and let's go to those shows who have already established an audience, who already have an established entertainment. Premise and encourage them and invite them to ensure first, first and foremost that their depictions around health and medicine are accurate, as accurate as they possibly can be.

Because if we haven't learned it back in the hiv aids crisis of the early two thousands, we've certainly learned it with covid that, misinformation put on, a big mouthpiece like a Grey's Anatomy or whatever popular show you wanna think of, can do a lot of harm. People can, can and will believe it, and then behave accordingly.

So it behooves the shows. For two reasons to be as accurate as possible when they're depicting, heart disease mental illness, addiction, whatever it is, first and foremost, because audiences are gonna know when you're not being accurate.

You know, if they depict it inaccurately, it's gonna take us out of the story and we might even turn it off. Change the channel It also, of course, helps their audience learn and, and have accurate information that can really change and affect their lives.So that's the difference in how Hollywood Health and Society approaches, this issue is we go to the shows that already have the audiences and, and invite them to use our services.

And by the way, our services are all pro bono. We don't charge a fee, we don't take a credit. We're just here to support the writers and we say, let us take the burden off of you when you're researching, you know, lung cancer for your character. Let us connect you with the experts that are on the front lines.

Let us give you vetted information so you're not going to Dr. Google to find out, you we all know what happens when we do that. so let us help you with the research part so you can do what you do best, which is tell amazing stories. So sometimes we'll get shows that will come to us and they'll say they'll have in the script.

So the doctor comes in and he tells the woman you have inflammatory breast cancer. And here's the protocol. And then they say to us, what would that protocol be? ? What would he say right there? You know? So they'll come to us with that. So they're telling the story, they're bringing the drama, and we'll just help them with sort of the medical or health details.

And of course, beyond medicine, we've now expanded into science and pro-social issues and policy and all kinds of other things now. But same, applies, you know, that we can help get them the most up-to-date accurate information.

June: That makes sense. it's more about, entertainment and profit when it comes to Hollywood versus what you said with teaching. Being accurate is like big thing because there's been so many times where I've watched a story and I was like, I don't think that's true.

And I immediately am pulled out of a story. But then at the same time so I was recently watching Lessons in Chemistry, which I think is a fantastic show that really deals with women in science and just women of that time trying to find their own. and there were so many times where I paused the show.

I was like, wait, is that true? And I start looking up stuff Google , of course. but ended up peaking, my interests, which I think is, something so beautiful about storytelling and the, kind of stories that we can tell that, creates this curiosity on this other side of, you accuracy.

Kate: We've done studies more recently now, on, shows that are depicting a certain topic, and we've looked at the Google searches around that topic at the exact time that the show is airing and you see these spikes. we did one with a show called Superman and Lois, which is on the, the CW and this past season of Superman and Lois, they did a whole season actually Lois gets breast cancer

 there's other things going on. But this is a, a through line through the whole season where she's dealing with her breast cancer. And it was really interesting because it's a villain that Superman can't defeat. he has to just go along for the ride, right? we looked at Google searches at several different times.

One of which was when Superman or Clark eventually goes to a support group for family members of people with cancer. You know, just to have a place to talk and is very resistant about going because he's Superman, of course, but he finally does go. And during that episode, we saw an incredible spike in searches for support groups, for family members of people with cancer.

Because Superman went and did it. It somehow spiked, you we see that happening. What you do is what everybody does now, which . Fine for the, for the lay person to be Googling and checking. We don't want the writer to be relying only on Google for coming up with, the, the information. but it is really interesting to see that now people, when they're watching, fact checking as they're watching.

And that storyline on, Superman and Lois, we consulted with them pretty much on every episode that dealt with that issue. they dedicated to making it, an accurate storyline as well as, offering their viewers, important information, and of course, entertaining.

June: when it comes to, the research side of things and then assessing, the impact that narrative stories have with audiences. when it comes to, putting together a report you approach that?

Kate: the Norman Lear Center, which is within which Hollywood Health and Society is housed, has actually grown so much in the last 10 or 15 years that, uh, Hollywood Health and Society used to be pretty much the flagship program of the Norman Lear Center. And we did research on the impact of, TV shows on audiences, content analyses to look at like what kinds of storylines are being depicted and are there some gaps? are we not seeing any storylines around X, Y, or Z? So we did that, and then we also did our outreach to the entertainment industry based a lot on the research that we did. Well, we've grown so much and the entertainment industry has grown back in the day it was, five networks, you know, that was it.

And then cable came and now streaming, and there's so many shows. We're so busy. I haven't gotten to Lessons in Chemistry yet, so don't tell me anything yet. But,

June: [Laughs] Okay. I won't.

Kate: although I spend a lot of my time watching tv, it's hard to get everything. So TV grew so much, we grew so much in our outreach work and our research work that we split into two groups under the umbrella of the Norman Lear Center.

So we have Hollywood Health and Society, which does the outreach and the work directly with writers and producers and,events and things like that. the Sentinel Awards and so forth. And then we have the Media Impact Project, which is the research side.

The research department has grown by leaps and bounds and is directed by a Dr. Erica Rosenthal. they conduct these content analyses where we look at, how often is people in poverty depicted on television and what's the quality if they are depicted, are they depicted in a positive light?

In a negative light? You know, what's that? So we, we did that actual study just a couple of years ago and found some really interesting, that I don't think we anticipated. what I found really intriguing about that study people in poverty were not depicted very often, when they were, they were often depicted as unhappy or angry or the bad guys, people who were wealthier, were depicted more often and we're always the good guys and always the nice guys and always warm and friendly. And some of this I'm sure is, unconscious in terms of writers and creators, but what does that say about what we're seeing as a whole on television?

And then we also do what you mentioned, these impact studies where we look at a show and how it might have affected its audience based on the information that was presented in the show. So look at did, audiences learn about, a certain issue.

We did a study many years ago now, on, a show that, introduced, The BRCA gene and the testing for the BRCA gene. which is the gene that's linked to breast cancer.

So you can get tested for that and if you have that gene, you can make some preventative, medical decisions to lower your chances of getting breast cancer. So when this all first came out, a TV show, I talked about this. It was a young woman. She was going off to college.

She was getting her checkup and the doctor said, your mom died of breast cancer and your aunt died of breast cancer and you really should get tested for this gene now, when you can some preventative measures. And so of course the story goes on. She of course, does test positive and there's drama around that.

Now she's a young woman. She has to decide, am I gonna get a mastectomy? Am I gonna get a hysterectomy? What does that mean for my childbearing years? All of these things. So they discussed all of that in the show. So we surveyed audiences that watched that show and learned about what they learned.

 and beyond what they learned, what their intentions were. So did they say they were gonna call their doctor and go get tested themselves? did they learn about what the BRCA gene was? Did they learn about, their own family history and whether or not they might be a candidate?

 we gauged all of that information and we could see how effective this show was in educating young women. on this topic. you know, studies to see If they actually really follow through with their, intentions are long and expensive, but we go by what they tell us. Those studies always just give me cold chills, it's just so interesting to see

The, uh, executive producer of Grey's Anatomy has told me numerous stories where she gets emails that says, Grey's Anatomy saved my life. I saw your episode on, inflammatory breast cancer. And I had already been to two doctors 'cause I had similar symptoms.

And they both told me no, it was just, a rash or something and not to be concerned. And when I saw your episode, I went to a third doctor and I was diagnosed with exactly what your character had and you saved my life.

 I mean, I get, I get sort of goosebumps when I just tell those stories cause I think it's so amazing, the power of TV and the power of storytelling.

June: When you do a lot of these studies, 'cause like you mentioned Grey's Anatomy the reaction that, they get from hearing, the work that they've done has done such great things. do you usually go back to the shows that you've worked with and say, this is the study we conducted.

This is information we got. Look at the impact that your show is having based on this storyline alone, and then what kind of reaction do you get from these other shows?

Kate: we definitely do that because it's, it's more proof that what, we can help them with really works. and yes. Oh, they're blown away. Grey's Anatomy's been around now, like your entire lifetime, probably .

It's, it's gonna be on forever, which is fine by me.

 we work very closely with them all the time. But yes, every time we do a study like that, a Superman and Lois, they were blown away with some of the, the studies that we did just about this Google searches, you know, that were were going on while people were watching the show.

So they love it. if they didn't already think they were making an impact on their audience, it really gives them proof. That they are,

June: If a filmmaker wanted to use the resources that you guys offer, how would they get started and what kind of, resources could they use?

Kate: as I like to say, and I don't know only people of a certain age get this joke anymore, but I say we have operators standing by to take your calls. we have a whole team that literally is working with shows on a daily basis. So you can call us, email us, reach out to us through our website, which is just hollywoodhealthandsociety.org, all one word smooshed together, and there's a contact us button.

And say, hey, I'm writing a script on X. I'd love to talk to an expert in this field. Can you help me? And we will get back to you. We understand, the industry's timelines, which are usually I need to talk to somebody yesterday. so we have a huge database, of experts in everything from, HIV, heart disease, donation, pet health, climate change, immigration policy, systemic racism, you name it.

And we've got people that are working in those fields that have volunteered to be available to talk to writers, they're developing their shows. So these are people that are working in the trenches, that are, that are willing to take time out of their good work and talk to a writer to help them get it right. And again, it can be any topic you can, I mean, I've had writers call me up and say, okay, this might be outside your wheelhouse.

I have a character who's Buddhist and I don't know anything about Buddhism. Can you help me? And I say, yes, I have a Buddhist monk in our database. Let's call him up. You know,

So, I mean, and if we don't have a contact, we know somebody who does. because we know the other advocacy groups that are out there that are sort of narrowly focused on their one issue, which oftentimes, again, writers will call us and say, I wanna talk to people who are in an advocacy group that are doing this kind of work, that are out there marching and protesting, we can hook them up with those groups.

So it's a great place to start no matter what you're working on. The other thing that we do is we host panel discussions and, mixers and we, hold the annual, Sentinel Awards, which honor shows that have done this kind of good work and affected their audiences.

And it's our little red carpet gala, which was on December 6th. it's a chance to kind of highlight these shows that have done good work, and also it's a pr opportunity for people who didn't know about us to now learn about what it is we can do. So we do all kinds of events. Often in partnership with the Writers Guild.

We'll do panels, we'll do things with SAG Aftra, with the Television Academy, where we bring experts into a room along with maybe some showrunners that have addressed whatever the topic is we're gonna talk about. And invite the industry to come in and hear from these people and just, learn and perhaps be inspired to take that into, the work that they're doing.

So we do those kinds of things. We have a newsletter. We have tons of tip sheets that we have on our website that you can just go and download or look at, if you're researching a topic. And again, these are vetted, these are up to date, We worked hard on developing them to make sure that they're current.

And those are just free. And again, like I said, we're we're always at the ready to help, whenever you need us.

June: talking about the Sentinel Awards that you, you had mentioned previously, why was it so important to honor storytellers in this space and, what kind of awards do you guys usually give out?

Kate: Sentinel Awards were right at the very beginning of the development of Hollywood Health and Society. They went pretty much hand in hand. It was something that, Marty Kaplan, the founder of the Lear Center, along with Norman Lear, felt was important to do, which was to draw attention to the good work that TV can and does do.

And who better to prove that than Norman Lear.

 you know, Hollywood, they like awards and writers never get any love in Hollywood. You know, it's always the producers or the directors or the actors, and it really starts with the story. was their, aim to really lift up the writers who were taking some of these risks to write, and again, this began in the middle of the AIDS crisis, they were taking risks to write about these topics and get them into their shows in order to, inform their audiences.

So the Sentinel Awards in the beginning of Hollywood Health and Society went hand in hand. this year was our 22nd Sentinel Award. I think. they started out just being, a small little academic event at the Writer's Guild, or maybe even at USC the first year or so. This was before my time. but it was very academic and very, people just showed up after work and they had a little panel discussion and they gave somebody an award.

That has grown from that little event to our full on Television Academy last year. This year it was at the Writer's Guild Theater, red carpet step and repeat celebrities, you know, the whole shebang. And from one or two awards. We now give about anywhere from 10 to 12, we give a children's programming award and everything else is pretty much based on the topic.

 the submissions go through two levels of judging, really three, they go through, make sure they meet the criteria, then they go through a round of judging, by experts in that topic area. And then another, if they rise to the top of that round of scoring, then they're scored by entertainment industry professionals for entertainment value.

And then those are the winners. So the topics change from year to year, depending on sort of what rises to the top. But we've given awards for climate change. breast cancer this year, Superman and Lois won, mental health, organ donation, many different kinds of topics. It just sort of depends on what sort of rises to the top.

 And this past year, we showed a video showing the beginning of the awards, the evolution of the Sentinel Awards, how they started all the way through.

And it was really fun to just see how it grew into this, you know, big star-studded event.

June: since you started your work in the social impact space, what changes have you seen, come to the industry and, what possible changes would you hope to see in the future?

Kate: I've been in this business a long time. Like I said, I mean really when I started, there were only three networks. so I've seen it go from three networks to five networks and then the advent of cable. And then of course, streaming. So in terms of the amount of content that's out there, it's just increased tenfold. we've all seen sort of, the rise and, and maybe the plateau now of streaming.

I'm not really sure where it's going or I don't think it's going away. I think that's probably how we're gonna all watch TV in the future. I, I don't really know what's gonna happen with your standard linear television network. I think it will exist until the whole country is wired with, wifi.

 That remains to be seen. But it looks like, it's certainly more and more people are watching, mostly streaming.

I don't think Disney's going anywhere. don't think any of these amazing content creators are going anywhere. I just think maybe the technology is gonna change. But the other thing that we've, we've noticed in more recent years is of course social media and how that's affected. not necessarily the way people watch, but it's part of the way people watch, for many years. And I think it probably still goes on. Grey's Anatomy and shows like How to Get Away With Murder and certain shows that were super popular had huge Twitter groups that were live tweeting while the show was airing and commenting.

And then there were all kinds of, of course, discussion groups and Reddit groups and everything, so there's a whole other level to your story consumption that involves now social media and, these other platforms. There's an academic term for it.

They call it transmedia, you know, sometimes you even pick up clues on the mystery if you go to the website or you go to their social media or you interact, it's all kind of being gamified in some ways.what we're really seeing is so many people are getting their entertainment and even their news from TikTok. And so what does that mean? what does that mean for storytelling? What does that mean for audience information? So these are all questions we're kind of having at the Lear Center now. gaming is a whole other world that we've dipped our toe in from time to time worked with Angry Birds on a whole, tournament they did on climate change.

The sort of gamification of storytelling, that's a whole area of storytelling that, that we have not been directly involved in. Um, that I could see us, offering our services to for sure. and of course the movie business is all, who knows what's going on with that. You know, I think, I don't think movies are gonna go away. I think they're going to, to get people into theaters, it's gotta be really a big experience like Taylor Swift, you know, or Avatar or something.

That's a really big experience. I think maybe, you know, these indie movies are gonna be ending up on streaming. we're sort of in this place at the Lear Center of what's coming next and of service to wherever audiences are going. Wherever they go, we'll be there to help.

June: So I always, end every interview I do with the same five slightly rapid fire questions, I.

Kate: [Laughs] okay.

June: It's, they're not too bad, I promise. . the first one is name one TV show, film, or podcast that has had a profound effect on you and why.

Kate: wow. Okay. would say the movie Network

with Faye Dunaway. Which came out probably when I was in college or maybe even high school. But that really again, sort of solidified my budding theory at the time of the impact of television and how it can create movements, how it can change people's lives.

And, and that film, if you haven't seen it, I highly, highly recommend it. It was, I Peter Finch won an Oscar postmortem for it. and she was nominated, or maybe she won also. it was a forewarning of, reality TV and, deep fakes and, using the news and reality TV to divide people.

 it was sort of a harbinger, it was a warning to me, like, whoa, this is where it could go. And this was, you know, it came out in like 79 or, but it, it blew my mind back then and again, just solidified what I wanted to do, which was to, to get into this kind of work to , combat that.

June: second question. what is the cause that is closest to your heart?

Kate: Oh wow. That's a tough one. Because, you know, we deal with so many issues in, in our office. I would say the number one, well, can I give you three?

June: Sure. Sure.

Kate: The number one cause for me and personally in my, in my heart of hearts is racism. And the abolishment of racism is something that has been a part of my life since I was a very young child. So that personally, and I'm grateful that we have a large grant from a foundation, to support us working with TV shows to tell stories about structural racism.

So not just the Billy making friends with his next door neighbor who's from a different culture, but more what are these structures that are in place in this country that are keeping us from becoming a unified, you know, racially diverse, equitable, society.

 the other issue that's really, really important to me, is the equality of women for kind of the same reasons. And the other is climate change, are my top three.

June: all very great causes. if you can name one nonprofit that you would love to lift up right now, what would it be?

Kate: Oh my gosh, these are hard questions.

Wow. I mean, I work with so many great nonprofits, from small organizations to big foundations. that's really tough. Again, back to this foundation, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which is the foundation that gave us the grant for structural racism. mean, they don't need any lifting up on my part, but, anybody who's doing that kind of good work. The California Healthcare Foundation is another foundation that supports us in the vein of structural racism as well, and they're doing amazing work. So, don't need my help. But I would say any group, large or small, that is working to truly bridge the gap, in this country around structural as well as in individual racism, I would say I would do what I can to help them.

June: if you could collaborate with anyone, who would it be?

Kate: Well, I just lost my dream collaborator that I feel so incredibly honored to have worked with and have gotten to know Norman Lear, whoI never would've dreamed. As I'm growing up on his shows and studying them and saying in my head, I wanna do that, that I would someday not only meet him, but get to work with him and collaborate with him on some of these efforts.

It was a dream come true. And, I said at the Sentinel Awards, there's a saying about,don't ever meet your heroes 'cause they'll probably disappoint you. That was not the case with Norman Lear. I mean, he went above and beyond any of my expectations as being just a mensch of a person, someone who deeply cared about America, who deeply cared about the issues that America is struggling with.

And also had an amazing sense of humor. I don't know if anybody could top him really. Uh, there are lots of wonderfully creative people that I get to work with and I'm delighted to do so. I guess I could name a couple others.I work with some of her shows, haven't worked with her directly.

And that's Shonda Rhimes.

The same goes for, I've worked with some of her shows, but not with her directly. And that's Ava Duvernay both of whom I would love to get a chance to sit in a room with and really brainstorm on how, you know, we might be able to help.

June: Yeah. Amazing creators, then the last question, which is a little bit silly, if you could choose one song to play every time you walked into a room, what would you choose and why?

Kate: Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. One song. All right. I'm gonna have to think about this for a minute. It would probably be something by Led Zeppelin. ,they're my favorite band of all times. Uh, so it would probably be something by Led Zeppelin, I'd have to think about the title. Um,

yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm an old hippie rock and roller, so, would definitely be from that era for sure.

June: something probably to like hype you up every time you, you enter and you're like, yes, let's do this

Kate: Yeah. Not stairway to Heaven. I'll say that right off the bat.

But, uh, yeah, something like that, that would, which is a great question. Now I'm gonna be thinking about that all day because I'm gonna use it when I walk into the office tomorrow and go, all right, come on, let's do this, folks.

 June:  well thank you everyone for listening and thank you Kate for being on the show.

Kate: Thank. you for having me. It was a pleasure.

June: / Thank you for joining me today on this episode. Story for Good is created, hosted, and produced by June Neely. For more information about the organizations or projects talked about in the show, or for media and sponsorship inquiries, visit us at storyforgoodpod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe to the show, and be sure to share it with a friend.