Marisa Nightingale on Bridging Non-Profits and Storytellers

Marisa: if you really get deep into any issue, it's fascinating and one of the things that. I find very rewarding is having one foot in each world. understanding the media world well enough to know their business and know what's helpful and what's annoying, but also having depth of expertise on the issues that I'm representing so that I can translate it. into something media friendly without losing the depth. It's a, practice and a discipline, but it also is a way of saying, this is all grounded in science, but how do you speak to both the creator and the ultimate viewer? in a way that's inviting. How do you bring them in rather than turning them off?

June: Welcome to Story for Good, the podcast where entertainment meets impact. I'm your host, June Neely. Today's guest is Marisa Nightingale. Marisa is a social impact media strategist who has worked with organizations like Power to Decide and Zero to Three, and now works as an independent consultant.

June Intro: Through her work, she has consulted on many shows like Dawson's Creek, The Bold Type, Family Guy, and Sixteen and Pregnant. Today we talk about some of her work and how we can help align actions with intentions through thoughtful storytelling.

I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. So let's get into it.

June: Welcome to the show. Oh.

Marisa: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here and so glad you're doing this podcast.

June: Nah. We always start off with, who you are So, how did you get your start in your career and what brought you to social impact?

Marisa: So I always feel like it makes sense when you look backwards, but there was never a really a coherent plan going forward. I started out thinking that I wanted to be a journalist and I did internships and the school newspaper and all that kind of stuff. because I really believed. In the power of journalism to write wrongs and to uncover facts.

And, I still believe in that. And, then after I did an internship at Us News and World Report, a wonderful mentor there, pointed me towards the field of. Nonprofit media, which I did not know existed. And so my first real job out of college, I had the privilege of working at Share Our Strength, which is now known as No Kid Hungry. We just celebrated its 40th anniversary last week. I'm still very close with the folks who run it and, feel like it was really my first professional home. and our goal there was to fight the causes and consequences of hunger by working with creative professionals to do what they love and do what they do best to raise money and give out grants. And I was there for six years and I got to see up close the incredible impact, not just of the grants that we gave, but of the passion and love that went into raising that money. and it's most known for mobilizing chefs and restaurateurs to put on events and raise money for hunger relief. And there's no more passionate advocate against hunger than a, someone who cooks food for others for a living. So I learned so much and I think, everything I learned there from how to do corporate partnerships that were meaningful to everyone and not just superficial marketing to how to bring unusual suspects into a cause and show them, reveal to them, what incredible advocates they could be. and so from there I was part of the founding staff of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy.

Back in 1996, now known as Power to Decide. and I have worked with them in a variety of roles ever since. and their goal is to ensure that all people have the power to decide if, when, and under what circumstances to get pregnant and have a child. and about, maybe five years ago, before the pandemic, I, myself as an independent consultant.

So I still work very closely with power to decide. and also with some other nonprofits, as you mentioned, because my role for the past 25 or so years has been to mobilize the entertainment media community, pop culture leaders, to try to really work hand in hand with them as they create stories to infuse those stories with information, expertise, audience voices, and ultimately reach their audiences with meaningful information or scenarios that really resonate with them that they may not have known they were even looking for. so I would say the majority of my career has been spent collaborating with creative media professionals. to bring about social impact. so largely on reproductive health issues, but also early childhood development and healthy pregnancies through the March of Dimes. like I said, it all makes sense when you look backwards.

June: In your time working in social impact, was there a profound moment or achievement that you felt like, wow, this is why I do what I do?

Marisa: There's been so many. I'm so lucky to do this work. Let's see. I would say two that really, stand out to me. I think one is, we worked very early on with the writers of Dawson's Creek, thanks to our wonderful, founding mother, Suzanne Daniels, who really established us out in Hollywood along with another, she's been a wonderful mentor and friend and along with Jodi Miller, and what she did was she introduced us to the showrunner and the writers and framed it as this organization can help you, not the other way around, which I think a lot of folks. bristle when they hear, oh, this advocacy group or this nonprofit is coming to meet with us. Either we're going to get scolded or we're going to be told we're sending the country to hell in a handbasket. And instead her approach was they're going to help you. They're going to give you story material. And bolster the ideas that you have already and maybe spark some new ideas So I feel like that sticks out a because a lot of the writers from that show are now showrunners and have Helped shape storytelling for an entire generation but also because I think she really nailed the way that this can work well, which is, if someone came to me in my job and said, you're doing your job wrong and you're causing harm, I'm not sure I'd be as open as if someone said, your work is really important and I have some material that could strengthen what you're doing.so I think that was a pretty important light bulb and it, set the tone for how we worked with many other shows at that time. So ER. all the way up through Glee, Family Guy, Modern Family, Black-ish, all these wonderful shows that informed public conversations through humor, through drama, and I think the other moment, major moment was when Sixteen and Pregnant was greenlit. And I remember with my colleagues and wonderful colleague, Amy Kramer and I, who did the entertainment work together. We said, if you had told us when this organization was founded that MTV would have an entire series devoted to teen pregnancy, we would have never believed you. But that's why, I don't work in television.

I work where I work. and the fact that it was just this runaway hit and is still on the air. it was the biggest brainchild of Lauren Dolgen, who's still, one of our Hollywood leaders. and I think what they saw was that teen pregnancy was something happening to their audiences and among their audiences, and they wanted to be part of that conversation. So I think that was another moment that after an independent researcher, examined the impact of the shows because 16 and Pregnant led to Teen Mom and it was all over the headlines and the supermarket tabloids everywhere you looked for a time. it was everywhere. And what they found was that these shows over an 18 month period helped accelerate the decline in teen pregnancy by a third. And they monitored Social conversation, traffic. And so they were able to come up with metrics to define what we could sense was going on. but I know for this work, we've always been. Reliant on how do you know if you're making a difference? It's a good idea. But how do you measure impact? so that was another major highlight because the very people who were really glued to the show were the ones that were making choices for themselves based on I think being informed and inspired by what they saw.

June: Oh, that's amazing. I'm kind of surprised that Family Guy was on the list of shows. Because I would never consider Family Guy being like, Let's engage with a non profit and tell accurate information.

Marisa: So that actually, that highlights a really important point when I think about, sometimes I teach classes about this work and, to business students or communication students. I even had a med school class once, half of them fell asleep for things. but one of the key. takeaways is that this all depends on finding the right people in the right jobs who are willing to talk to you. And another one of our leaders in Hollywood, Shauna Waterman was an executive at Fox who had worked with us for years. And she knew that if we could just get in the room with the family guy writers and brainstorm, they would see the humor in what we do, because we definitely have a sense of humor about it. And sex is funny. Relationships are funny. And so it really, I think one of the fundamentals that I always come back to is that any, progress to be made in working with storytellers has to be collaborative. It's never, going to a room full of creatives and saying, you need to say this, or you need to show that. Because that is not, they don't get up every day to work on reproductive rights or on early childhood development. They get up every day to create stories and build universes that people want to be in. And so it's an enormous privilege to be led into that world. and the way I always see it is that we're being welcomed into a bond and a conversation that they've built with their audience. It happens most of the time to be our audience. But they're the ones who have created this relationship and this bond where audiences want to come back, want to tune in, they want to be there. And if you think about it, it's no, no shade on PSAs, but it's the opposite of a PSA, which is what most people think of when they think of nonprofit media. A PSA, sure, you have a hundred percent control over what goes in it. But traditionally it was remnant space. So it was like two in the morning. You have no idea who's going to see it when, but even worse, it just was like, you could smell it a mile away that it was someone telling you what to think, what to do, what not to do. And so when we started, the entertainment work at power to decide the whole kind of, foundation of it was we want to be where our audiences are, and so we have to belong in those spaces. And really respect the creative, independence of the people we're working with. And since we don't bring any money to the table, it's their work.

And so respecting the creative process, respecting the tone, the unique, kind of world and tone of each individual show if you don't have that, then it'll never work.

June: Yeah, for sure. Speaking of that, when it comes to, crafting impact or talking to, various organizations as well as the writers rooms, like how do you take the science and the facts of a problem and of incorporate them into storytelling and make it organic?

Marisa: that's where the kind of excitement comes in and, having been in the same general field for 25 plus years, the issues, if you really get deep into any issue, it's fascinating and one of the things that. I find very rewarding is having one foot in each world. understanding the media world well enough to know their business and know what's helpful and what's annoying, but also having depth of expertise on the issues that I'm representing so that I can translate it. into something media friendly without losing the depth and so I worked on, some wonderful projects with Zero To Three, which is an early childhood development nonprofit. And one of the things that they were passionate about was helping Parents of young children incorporate child development science into their parenting. And so it's fascinating to understand what happens to a developing brain in the first three years of life. And, refashioning that into material that was appealing to television writers and others in media. It's a, practice and a discipline, but it also is a way of saying, this is all grounded in science, but how do you speak to both the creator and the ultimate viewer? in a way that's inviting. How do you bring them in rather than turning them off? and for example, one of the discussion groups we did with parents to test out some messages and get a feel for what they were thinking, was asking them, do you think that parenting can even be learned? Because if you don't ask those fundamental questions, why would anyone want your tips if they didn't think this was something? And so what came out was a really important conversation. about, yes, I do, but respect my understanding of my own child. And what came across was that the experts often off as patronizing, not respecting that the relationship between parent and child gave that parent expertise on their specific child. And so that really informed every message, every approach. And, it just goes back to, if you want to be where your audience is and you want to engage with them, you really have to listen and know where they are, not just what they know, but what are their hearts telling them? What makes them feel connected?

What. Pushes them away. Yeah.

June: because if, it comes off, From a scientific standpoint, it ends up turning people off. Especially if I start hearing a bunch of numbers and facts, my brain is like, this sounds like math. I can't do this.

Marisa: Well, when we first went out to Hollywood, when I, with Power to Decide, we had all these charts and handouts. And, At the time the head of Warner brothers television, Bruce Rosenblum was our godfather out there. And he said, these are storytellers. You have to tell a story, but you have to have data to back it up. So you cannot have a, an information free story. But if you don't tell a human story, you just, it's a non starter.and so I think that's some, that's a piece of advice that's carried through. In everything I've done, which is you need both. And I think when I work with nonprofits, one of the most important things that they can do is think about if there are conversations happening about my expertise. And I'm not in them, which is where I come in. I try to help them get into those conversations. You have to be part of the conversation. You can't Stomp in and correct everybody. But you can't just have a, expertise free conversation either. So it's a way of weaving that in, in a respectful manner. Like one example, again, from the Zero to Three work is, there are a lot of people who don't want to spank their kids, but they do. And. It was a very moving conversation that we had with folks, and then we did some survey work. And it's not a large percentage of parents, but the ones who do say they wish they didn't, they just don't know what else to do, or they get pushed to the brink of frustration.

And lots of knowledge about how harmful it is to spank your kids is not going to help them out of that heat of the moment desperation and so we talked a lot and we did a lot of work about what to do before you get so overheated that you don't feel like you have any choices and so to really go hand in hand with an audience rather than scolding or saying don't do this, you're causing harm, even if that is the truth. you can convey that in a more helpful and productive way.

June: I felt a lot of times people, they know the truth already. They already understand. They're like, that's not the part I have an issue with. It's how do I change? And what's the best way to change?

Marisa: Right. I look at this work as helping people align actions with intentions and in particular, when you're talking about reproductive health, it's not to come down from on high and tell somebody what they should do. It's to say, what is your desire for your own Reproductive course, and then let's help you get there.

Sometimes it's by knowing about birth control methods that you didn't know existed. Sometimes it's, supporting someone in having, a productive conversation with a health care provider who they feel is not paying attention to them or is even, being denigrating. So barriers can take all forms, and you're right.

Knowing something is important. Is part of the puzzle, but plenty of people know things and don't act on them. And it's not because they're bad people. we've all been there and I think that's another reason why I love working with the creative community because the issues that I care about are not kind of, they don't really lend themselves to seven second PSAs especially something like reproductive health and well being. What we have done with Power to Decide over the years is really honor the fact that it's so nuanced and so complex and pregnancy on your own terms and timeline isn't even always up to you. There are systems at play that create contraceptive desert and inequities that no matter how motivated you are.

If you don't have a clinic. In your county, that's not on you, and so I think one of the things that media and in particular entertainment media lends itself to are these nuanced stories, a scripted series that has 10 or 18 or 22 episodes can really get into depth and, when you think about, impact. One of the most important things to think about is what media can and can't do. And one of the things media absolutely can do is help a viewer see themselves in a character. If they're attached to a character and that character goes through something, it really helps them personalize that whole situation.

What would I do if I were in that situation? And it gives viewers a chance to think through what they would do before they're actually in that situation. It's almost, like you can't hit rewind in real life, but if your favorite character is going through something, I think social scientists refer to it as a super peer.

It's almost as good as if it happened to a friend. Almost as powerful. Which is why we go back to helping storytellers do what they set out to do. not I always think about, entertainment and education don't cancel each other out. If it's done they can really enhance each other.

June: Yeah, You've done a lot of campaigns with Power to Decide, in all the years that you've worked with them. What are some of the activations that you guys did to measure your impact?

Marisa: I love that question. Thank you for asking that. So I would say there have been small scale and larger scale impact measurement efforts. and again, I'm speaking on, about the work I did with Power to Decide on behalf of Power to Decide, over the years. And so I think some smaller scale efforts just to take the temperature of the audience, I would point to, we've worked with a bunch of shows on Free Form. In particular, The Bold Type, which I loved. It was a wonderful show. And they always did something. Every episode had something about sex, relationships, pregnancy loss, birth control, everything. and so every week, in partnership with The Free Form social media team power to decide would live tweet every single episode and the show would share every one of our posts they shared screeners in advance so we knew what was coming and it enabled us, there was an episode about emergency contraception and, Jane had it delivered by Postmates to her home, Power to Decide's website, Bedsider.org, which is a birth control site for young people had a whole article on, can you get birth control delivered to your door? And because we knew that scene was coming, we were able to post that link right as that scene was unfolding.

 The show shared our post. And so all of the very, active and engaged fans saw it and got used to seeing our posts and so then we would do these Twitter polls and we did one after that episode asking, did you learn anything new about emergency contraception from this episode?

75 percent said yes. So that does not count as a peer reviewed research study, but it's a snapshot that these shows for their most, ardent viewers really are sharing new information and doing it in a way that is super relatable. And then, the role of the nonprofit in that scenario is The show brings it up, has a whole, the whole episode was about getting, the condom broke, getting the emergency contraception delivered, what it felt like the whole next day as her body was, taking it and, they pass the baton to us to then connect viewers, Hey, if you need emergency contraception, here's where you can get it. So the show doesn't want to be responsible for that, but we do and so that's the other component that did not exist when I started this work in the mid nineties, there was no social media. and so all of these conversations, there was this, mediating voice of the TV show or the film. And now you have that plus social and digital media where you can have a direct conversation with viewers, but it only really works. if the subject has come up in the story. And Power to Decide actually did some polling in the fall showing that, 25 percent of young people said they got information about birth control from social media. So even if people want to get that information, from a provider or in sex ed class, which by the way is, under attack along with everything else, getting it from their favorite media that they're tuning into. Anyway, they don't tune into The Bold Type to get information about emergency contraception. But what they come away with is often more compelling than anything they may have gotten in another setting because it's through these kind of characters that they've come to love

June: a lot more effective than the original PSAs where it shows up as like a single card at the end of an episode. They're like, call this hotline, which I mean, nowadays people aren't calling hot lines. They're like, I don't want to talk on the phone, but this is a great way to engage an audience.

Marisa: Yeah, and I think you know, certainly those end cards on episodes where there's something I think those are a really great thing for Media companies to do and we love that opportunity, but I think having it really built into story has staying power and I think an early example of that when we worked with Dawson's Creek, we actually did an evaluation of, the most, hooked viewers.

Like we, we did an audience evaluation to find out if after six seasons, the messages we had been working with the writers and producers. to weave in as appropriate. Did they mean anything to viewers? Because at the time that show was considered very sexually explicit and super hot, which is why viewers loved it and parents were afraid of it. And one of the things we found for the really frequent viewers, the really committed viewers, was that the show made them feel more cautious about sex. Because of the storylines, because they weren't just like watching a scene and clutching their pearls. They were watching Joey's pregnancy scare in one season, which meant that the next season she decided not to sleep with her new boyfriend. so really watching characters experiment and feel heartbreak and have betrayals and breakups and all of those things that are authentic. To viewers, they don't experience sex and birth control in a vacuum. It's all part of relationships. And, that's why I think working in this way is really effective because that is how real people experience things.

They don't experience things in silos and I think the modern version of that is when we worked with The Rookie, on ABC and there was a pregnancy story and we were able to share information in real time about healthy pregnancy. So it's not to take over the, the audience is going to be talking about the show with or without the nonprofit voice. So I think the ultimate goal is to be in that conversation in a helpful way.

June Midroll: /You're listening to Story for Good. If you like the show, please follow and subscribe to keep updated when new episodes drop. And if you're looking for more social impact goodness, but in your inbox, sign up for our newsletter at storyforgoodpod.com./

June: so let's talk about some of the campaigns that Power to Decide has of done, even outside of, or in conjunction with, like the Thanks for Birth Control. And then, most recently, because it was the anniversary of the fall of Roe, which is this year. Such a sad anniversary. but all your kind of campaigns that you guys create with that.

Marisa: Yeah, no, thank you for asking about that. So Thanks Birth Control came about, we power to decide, came up with that idea, in 2012 because we felt that the public conversation about birth at the time was very negative, very toxic, and yet 99 percent of Women who have sex with men have used birth control at some point. So it was this topic that was only talked about in terms of negativity or fighting or politics. But yet, it's such a normal, everyday thing that our goal was to try to open up a positive conversation about what birth control makes possible. Not necessarily who pays for it or any of the politics around it.

Again, that was, 12 years ago. Things are very different now, but at that time people didn't say birth control in public. They were like afraid of getting screamed at. And so what we tried to do was bring a lively, positive, upbeat tone, create a positive conversation and give people. A way to express this positivity publicly, because, again, back to the evidence and having everything be grounded in the science. our polling showed that more than half of college age women said they'd be more likely to use contraception if it were talked about in a more positive public way. And this was a particular segment that 9 out of 10 said they didn't want a pregnancy right now. But only four out of 10 were using birth control consistently. So it's back to helping people align actions with intentions and so that campaign is now it's got a life of its own. We have everyone from Hillary Clinton to, MTV puts it in their time square billboard. and fortunately birth control is something that is now talked about widely and openly. there's still a lot of myths and misperceptions and disinformation. And so it's really important to keep the message alive and keep it going. But I think embracing it and making it something joyful and something that you talk about because it allows you and enables you to live the life you want, people have really taken to that way of talking about it.

So we tried to introduce another way. Being part of the conversation. And then I will say one example from zero to three that I was, that we were very happy with the way it worked out was, we wanted to reach millennial parents of infants and toddlers where they are. And we partnered up with a YouTube star named LaGuardia Cross, who just had a channel of him hanging out with his toddler daughter. And it was the most warm, lovely, joyful channel, very funny. And he would have his friends come in. And so we partnered with him and, acted as kind of producers. And he did a four episode series called Daddy Matters. And it was about the role of dads fully informed by all the focus groups we did. With dads saying, hey, just because I'm not with my kid, it doesn't mean I don't want to be, don't point the finger at me and say, I've left my kids. How do you even know that I, there aren't other barriers or, dads who say, I just never had a model. I never had a dad who said, I love you. Or some who said I never had a dad at all. And so LaGuardia incorporated a lot of these messages as well as child development science into this series, and it was a big hit, and his viewers already were attached to him. And so the fact that he was able to deliver some child development science gave the folks who already followed him, something that they didn't set out looking for, but it was a way to have this kind of positive, joyful. environment and experience and learn something without, feeling all bummed out or insufficient or, a lot of parents said, I don't want to seek help because it will seem like I'm a bad parent if I need help. So I think with a lot of issues, this sort of crosses over this idea that people who want to learn more, Or want to tap into resources, don't want to be made to feel ashamed of any, anything they don't already know.

June: It's kind of like those silent Google searches that you do where you're just like, is this weird?

Marisa: I think that's another thing there's what media can and can't do. And one of the major things that pop culture and entertainment can do is make you feel part of a community. And make you feel not alone. they're the fandoms out there for different shows are these tight knit communities. we worked with a show called East Los High, which was one of the very first Hulu originals. And it was a wonderful, all Latino cast, crew, production team, incredible show. And their fans called themselves ELH Addicts. Like they had such a powerful fan base. and so what the actors in the show went through, There was an evaluation actually of that show because it had, sexual and reproductive health messaging in its DNA.

It was created to be in part of pro social effort. and they went with a cast that was very much, not super celebrities. They went with up and comers who audiences really related to and they related right back. Like they were out in the community No sets. It was all on location. And so they really created a world that wasn't just fantasy.

It really was this kind of hybrid, real experience for people. And it made a huge difference.

Is there a difference, in approach when it comes to working on a scripted show versus the project that we worked on together, Crossing the Line, when it comes presenting information, Definitely. Yes, there is a different approach. I think the, there's one thing that every approach has in common, which is authenticity coming into any creative space, you have to be authentically expert in what you're talking about and bring, at least in my opinion, bring with you the voices of people that you're trying to reach. So that you're not representing someone without having listened to them first but then if you're in a room, in a writer's room for a scripted series, whether it's a drama or a comedy, I think you owe it to that creative group to have watched their show, know the characters, know how they've dealt with your issue in the past, if they have. Know who, who's watching, why people love the show, read everything about the show so that you walk into their world, this world that they live in 24 seven, fully informed, or as informed as you can be. I think it's a sign of respect and also it's a richer conversation because you can you don't have to start at square one and, a lot of the decisions that they're making as they're breaking stories really have to do with what's best for the character, what's going to drive this character forward. And so the more you as the nonprofit or the advocate for your cause know about the world you're stepping into, the more effective you can be. And then you're not pitching ideas that would never work. Now, sometimes we've walked in and thrown some ideas across that they're like, Oh no, she would never do that.

But her cousin might, you know, or they know their characters better than anyone. and I think the other thing is for unscripted, because what happens on camera, no one can control. What you have to do is, really get immersed with the producers before they go into the field, ideally. So the relationship that we developed, at Power to Decide with the producers of 16 and Pregnant and Teen Mom, it grew over time.

it's a really long haul. So the first season we were involved a little bit, the second season a little more and several seasons in we were watching Caitlin go get her IUD and the cameras were following her into the exam room because she was very comfortable talking about these things and so one of the conversations we had with the producers was. This is a show about teenagers who got pregnant, don't leave on the cutting room floor any conversations about how that happened, so some of it was, here's what to look out for. If you hear a conversation about this or that, capture it and include, keep it in the show because for unscripted, I think there is an important immersion step. And then once the footage has been gathered and there's a rough cut, we would often look at that. And I, still do that for some shows to just look at the rough cut and flag anything that might send a damaging message. Or, I might say, Oh, did they talk a little more about this?

Or can you stay with this conversation a little longer and let it play out? And MTV has been incredible. they really also have social impact in their DNA. Every chance they get, they want to have a social impact layer to the entertainment that they produce.

 one show we work with right now is Caught in the Act Unfaithful. That's an unscripted series. It's really entertaining. they definitely do not feel that social impact takes away from entertainment value.

June: so what are some of the projects or, work that you have coming down the pipeline?

Marisa: Right now I'm mostly focused on my reproductive health work with Power to Decide. because the environment that we're in is, it's in such need of, um, Good information, myth busting and connecting people with resources. and I would say one of the things that Power to Decide does really well is at the national level, stay on top of abortion laws in every state through their abortion finder site, and keeping that up to date because things are changing so rapidly and also helping to bust myths and get evidence out there. But it's such a, an uphill climb because there's so much misinformation and disinformation purposefully being pushed out If you're a reporter, push the person you're interviewing to give you a source, tell you where they got their fact. Don't let them off the hook if they spew misinformation that they picked up from a politician. and if you're in entertainment, I think telling a great story can also include everything from. just panning, if you're in a college campus scene, and you show a vending machine with condoms and emergency contraception, which exist on many college campuses, show that as part of college life, normalize the importance of having access to contraception, of having, a health center with a, non shaming, non judgmental provider.so I would say that's really my focus right now. I'm also working on a project related to gender equity and pay equity and care. In the workplace. and making sure that systems are portrayed and that we get away from the bootstraps myth that for example, to leave early to care for an aging parent or a young child. and so one of the messages of that work that's so important that needs to get out there is, what if people talked openly about their care responsibilities at work and it was embraced? And what if people looked at the systems that, do not give paid leave for parents? how does that, I mean, it impacts everybody, but so how come that's not the headline? How come that we're not seeing that in, workplace dramas? So increasing the visibility and also sharing the message that if somebody is not like gunning for a promotion, it might not be because they don't want it or they're not qualified.

It might be because they have such care responsibility at home that they cannot handle that and they have to make choices and feel alone. So I think back to this, you know, media can make us all feel less alone. I think that's a really important part of the puzzle. and I would also say the, the creative community has been through a lot these last 12 months with the strike and with the industry kind of contracting. And so I think the other thing I feel a real responsibility to both to the nonprofits I work with and to the media professionals I work with is to really find out like, what do they need right now? Because being at this intersection of nonprofits and media, I really do feel this allegiance to both worlds. And I think what made me want to try consulting was this notion that both worlds really need each other. It's really a two way street. And I think everybody benefits when the two worlds collaborate, not just collide, but really collaborate and co create.

June: I don't think that I covered this yet, but, When we're talking about impact, when I'm, thinking about with a nonprofit who wants to work with entertainment media, I think the first and most important step is not to say, gee, I'd really love to be in Law and Order.

Marisa: How do we do that? But it's to say, what is the goal? What do you want to get out of collaborating with pop culture? And it's a hard question. It sometimes takes a while to keep digging and looking inward and figuring out what is the best, most effective use of this way of working. And I think one thing to think about is a clear sense of who you want to reach. Where are they now? And what do they feel? Not just, what do they know, but how do they feel? And then where are they? What are they watching? Why do they love it? And then how can you be in that conversation in a way that enhances it for everyone? How does having your issue and your message make that an even better conversation, an even better story? because the end in itself is not just being in an episode of a show. It's really what conversations and actions does that spark? Does that help the viewer think differently about themselves? Does it help the viewer learn something that they're then going to go find out more about? Does it help them think more about what they would do if they were in that situation? Or if a friend was in that situation? So I think getting really clear about what does this accomplish and how does that align with the overall goals of our work? and I think that's something that's fun. It's a fun set of questions. It's a hard set of questions, but it makes you so much more valuable to the entertainment community if you can go to them with these things articulated.

June: I love that. That's a great way to think about the work and what kind of work you're trying to do.

Marisa: thank you. And it's really about. When people talk about narrative shift and culture change, I think sometimes people start a little after the starting point, like we need to change the culture. We need to flip the script. But like, where is it now? And what about it needs flipping? And why?

June: Yeah, and you have to understand you can't just immediately go in and try to change whatever system. You have to work within the system that's already there and then slowly change it.

Marisa: I think the media people who, have been working in that industry, Are feeling a lot of these issues personally.

They're feeling, you know, if they're shooting on location in Georgia or Florida, they're worried about their own reproductive care. And if they're on strike, because they deserve a fair wage. They're dealing with, care issues. How am I going to pay for my health care or my child care if I'm on strike for six months? So I think all of these issues are very personal and there is a lot, I would say much more so now than 25 years ago, you don't really need to do a lot of convincing that folks who create media are very powerful and that these issues are what their audience wants and needs. It feels much more seamless.

June: so when I first started, at Power to Decide, which at the time was the national Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy. our founding CEO, Sarah Brown, who was an incredible mentor. For my whole professional life. One of the things I learned from her, was respectful disagreement. And I just Wanted to bring that up when you think about issues that you're passionate about and how contentious they can be. One of the things that I feel like I've always brought to the media partners that I work with is this assurance that I will not get them in trouble, that working with me and Power to Decide and our team, that they don't have to worry about controversy because that's our job, is to manage that for them, because I think with any issue, hunger, poverty, gender pay equity, any issue you can think of, no matter how benign you may think it is on the surface, the minute you start digging, there's always controversy. And I think that scares away a lot of people, especially if their main job is to make entertainment. And so I just want to reinforce the power of respectful disagreement and you don't have to solve every conflict, but just because something is controversial, you can still move through it without getting burned. Totally. and sometimes it's not as controversial as you think it's going to be. It's just, everyone's waiting for somebody else to speak up.

That's good. Because that is true. Sometimes people are just waiting for one person to say it. And they're like, oh, I also feel this way.

Marisa: And now we know it's possible to speak up because you're doing it and I'm doing it. So I think leadership means just sometimes being the first one to say things out loud and then finding that there are a lot of people who agree with you.

They were just looking for that outlet. And I think that's another reason entertainment media can really lead, especially in this moment, because no one can really tell them what to say.

June: Yeah, that's great.

 So with every interview I do, I always end with the same five rapid fire ish questions. the first question is, name one TV show, film, or podcast that has had a profound effect on you and why.

Marisa: Oh, wow. A profound effect. I would say Crossing the Line had a very profound effect on me, which I know you worked on and it was so incredibly timed and beautifully produced. And you were on the ground as Roe was being overturned and you were in clinics recording people's reactions. And it was, I really. admire the work that went into that because it was so needed and it was just very profound and very much the right time. So that was incredible. I think about it all the time and then on a daily basis, I listened to Fresh Air because I love the way that Terry gross gets people to just spill their guts. Love that show.

June: Both great recommendations. this might be a little cheating, but what is the cause closest to your heart?

Marisa: I would say, reproductive well being is the cause that has become closest to my heart, but it's really that whole continuum of, helping to ensure that people can make decisions about pregnancy and parenthood on their terms and their timelines. And that we then, as a society, have. every support in the world for infants, toddlers, children, and that harkens back to the work I did on, hunger relief and prevention. And the first organization I worked for is called No Kid Hungry for a good reason and that these are, I've learned from my wonderful mentors and colleagues throughout my working life that these are problems we can solve. If not completely solved, make a huge dent in and so gathering the will to do it and connecting people with what they need, is very doable and that I find that very motivating.

June: And the next question, which I feel like might also be cheating, but, name one nonprofit you would love to lift up right now.

Marisa: I would love to lift up Power to Decide, not just because it's been my professional home for, my whole adult life, but also because of the way they approach reproductive well being and the way they approach bringing people in and Finding a way for anyone who wants to be part of the movement to get involved at any level and at any time.

and I just think that they take the role of culture very seriously and I appreciate that. I would also love to lift up No Kid Hungry and congratulate them on 40 years of incredible work. That's two.

June: Happy to have two. if you could collaborate with anyone, who would it be?

Marisa: Oh boy, that's such a good question. the first one that comes to mind is Trevor Noah, because I think he's brilliant. And I think he has that magic mix of comedy and insight and smarts and depth. So I don't know what he's doing next, but, that would be fun to be part of it. and then I would say I've had the honor and privilege of collaborating with some of the smartest, most incredible women in Hollywood that I've ever run across.

And so my wish would be to continue to collaborate with them. Suzanne Daniels, Lauren Dolgen, Gina Girolamo, Melissa Myers, Amy Friedman, Samie Falvey, Shana Waterman They all started out as young executives, or even assistants and have grown in the industry and are now running studios. And I just am in awe of them all. And, I think they take their role very seriously as folks who have these platforms.

And so there's no question they're going to use them for good. And I want to add Craig Erwick, the lone guy in the group who has been super committed to reproductive well being for 20 plus years and, really, I think leads by example, shows people what's possible. I keep answering with two when you asked me for one,

June: It's a lot of people do and it's perfectly fine.

Marisa: And then the last one, which is always a little bit silly is if you could choose one song to play every time you walked into a room, what would it be and why?

Oh, I'm the worst person to ask this to. I never know who sings what I just listened to Whatever's on. Here's how I would answer that at this moment. It could be a different answer tomorrow. I love the song Don't Stop Me Now by Queen and I rediscovered Queen thanks to my teenage son who fell in love with Queen a couple years ago. And since I'm a kid of the 80s, I just love like the revival aspect of it. So I guess that's how I would answer that. ask me again tomorrow. I don't know.

June: It's great.

Marisa: so thank you everyone for listening and thank you Marisa for being on the show

Thank you so much, June. I had so much fun talking to you and I really appreciate you bringing me in.

June: Yeah, I'm so glad we could do this

June Outro: Thank you for joining me today on this episode. Story for Good is created, hosted, and produced by June Neely. For more information about the organizations or projects talked about in the show, or for media and sponsorship inquiries, visit us at storyforgoodpod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe to the show, and be sure to share it with a friend.