Meredith Blake on Uncharitable and Crafting Impactful Campaigns

Meredith: What brought me where I am today is a little bit of twists and turns in my career biggest one was An Inconvenient Truth and that was an incredible experience to be able to work on that film with former Vice President Al Gore no one film is going to necessarily change the world dramatically overnight, but it can really, amplify the grassroots efforts that are going on out there, the policy change that's on out there, why do we have this one set of rules for the for profit sector and one for the non profit sector?

June Intro: Welcome to Story for Good, the podcast where entertainment meets impact. I am your host, June Neely. Today's guest is Meredith Blake. Meredith produces film and TV under her banner, Storied Nation. She has extensive experience working in impact entertainment from her time at Participant, working on The Inconvenient Truth, to her latest film, Uncharitable. I'm so excited to talk to her today about some of her projects and learn more about crafting impactful campaigns. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation.

So let's get into it.

June: Hi Meredith. Welcome to the show.

Meredith: Thanks for having me.

June: So I always start off with, a bit about your background. So how did you get your start in your career and what brought you to social impact?

Meredith: I think, uh, what brought me where I am today is a little bit of twists and turns in my career, but I started out actually after law school, I'm a lawyer by background and training, and I came out of law school and founded a nonprofit legal services agency. And so I was starting my career in the impact space.

I was really working on, figuring out how to use the nonprofit, vehicle as a way to affect change and so got my start really understanding grassroots activism and organizing and program design and evaluation and impact. And then after a dozen years doing that, I then switched over

Full force to the entertainment and media side. And from there went and started the impact division at Participant Productions and, cut my teeth kind of in the entertainment industry, really at a very big studio, making all kinds of content that really had the purpose of having impact and being focused on what the impact agenda was there and did that for.

Some years and then transitioned into starting my own company I've spent the last 20 years really doing producing executive producing and impact producing around content ranging from documentary film to scripted to television and beyond.

June: When you worked at Participant, you started almost, right when the company started, and then you worked on Inconvenient Truth, how did that come about, and what was the process in creating the impact campaign around that film?

Meredith: Yeah, I did. I was an early employee at Participant and in fact, the first employee in the impact division, which I was actually brought on board to create. So, when I started at Participant, no films had been released. It was that early and, had the pleasure of being able to be a part of the early days and figuring out what that was going to look like, what our ability was to activate our audiences as well as entertain and inform them.

And, you know, that was really, my charge was high level strategy and then also building and managing those campaigns. Probably the biggest one was An Inconvenient Truth and that was an incredible experience to be able to work on that film with former Vice President Al Gore and really have the opportunity to not just create impact with that film, but I think be part of a team that was also helping to define what using storytelling for impact might look like as we went forward.

June: In your time, working in social impact, was there any profound moment, or, achievement where you felt like, wow, this is why I do what I do?

Meredith: I think I've had a few of those for sure. I mean, you know, obviously the, groundswell that An Inconvenient Truth caused, really sort of opening up the dialogue at a critical moment in a way it had not been happening around climate change was very important. And there were some really important lessons in doing that work.

But I think going forward, I can, point to a number of other examples. I did a lot of the impact work for Paul Allen before he passed and he had Vulcan Productions. He was deeply engaged in, probably the most so for anybody that I've worked with, in really investing long term and understanding that social impact takes time and resources and grit and the ability to, pivot when needed to double down when needed.

And so there were projects I worked on with him for multi year on various subject matters and was able to really see the impact. When you work with somebody who's willing to put that kind of financial and time commitment into social change. So that was very important. I worked on another film called Life According to Sam, if you will, a smaller film in the sense that it didn't have, a billionaire backer behind it, like some of the other projects I'd worked on, and the team around that was scrappy and relentless and committed.

And we did some pretty amazing things on that film as well. So I would say I've had a few of those in my career. And then also I would point out that a lot of times people are looking for those big swings and those are important. But also I think when we look at the issues of social change more broadly, we also have to think about the constant drumbeat.

On a particular issue, meaning no one film is going to necessarily change the world dramatically overnight, on an issue and eradicate homelessness or climate impacts or anything that we're talking about, but it can really, amplify the grassroots efforts that are going on out there, the policy change that's on out there, but most often we need that constant drumbeat.

You need the next story and the next story and the next story. And so. I've been a part of dozens and dozens of, films and television series. So I think we're contributing importantly to that constant drumbeat.

June: Yeah, that's a great point to make. There's definitely a need for the story to continue because, there's so much media and entertainment that comes out, stories can eventually get lost or forgotten. So continuing the story definitely helps to, keep impact going.

Between your previous company, ProSocial, and your current company, Storied Nation, you've worked on a lot of amazing projects. How do projects usually come your way?

Meredith: it's a combination of my seeking them out and them finding me. there are definitely projects where, I've gotten that phone call or that email at various stages of a project from early idea to the fact that it may already be in post-production or Something in between and folks are coming to me and saying, we really need strategy.

We really want to think about impact. We need a producer who has a mind and an eye towards those issues. So I think they come to me at all different stages and just the kinds of things I've worked on and how long I've been in this space. But there are issues that I care deeply about. There are opportunities that I see.

There are, you know, a number of projects where I have either sought those out or, helped to be part of the team that's bringing it to life in the first place.

June: How did the projects, Mending the Line and Forgiving Johnny, how did those come to you?

Meredith: Mending the Line came to me, actually through a mutual colleague who worked with some of the financiers of that film. And the financiers behind that were really also philanthropists who were really interested in the mental health issues and environmental issues that, were a part of that film and sort of the storyline behind that.

And they were really interested in making sure that their Focus on those issues was maintained throughout the production and distribution and impact side of things. And then Forgiving Johnny was, brought to me by a potential distributor, who was looking at the film and knew that they were really interested in bringing forth the criminal justice reform issues that were in that short film as well.

 So those are 2 of the 3 films I released last year. The 3rd was Uncharitable and Uncharitable. I knew a variety of folks who were involved in that, and that's been a really important film with a lot of philanthropists and participants and filmmakers behind that for the sole purpose of using that film to radically change the way we're thinking about philanthropy.

And so it was a natural thing for me. Me to get involved in that and help the team think through how to produce that in a way that was going to be able to affect that. And I think I'll be working on that film for many years to come because the impact side of that has had tremendous opportunity there.

June: When it comes to creating an impact campaign, is there a difference in the approach when it comes to a documentary film versus a fiction project?

Meredith: I don't think that there's something different per se, just because one is, A documentary film versus say, something that's scripted, right? It really is more. The difference has come down to practical things oftentimes, which are who's behind wanting that impact campaign. what are the resources behind it?

What are the commitments behind the content to actually use this and look past the distribution window, and think about how communities and organizations and policy makers and beyond are willing to. Engage with that content to affect an impact agenda. And so, this really ranges from folks who come to the table thinking much more about, the marketing side of this, for example, we've got a piece of content and we, would really like to see an engaged audience that cares about these issues come to the table to access or consume that content, right?

That's really more of a marketing lens. To folks that I mentioned, like Paul Allen and many others that I've worked with who primarily came to the storytelling vehicle as a vehicle for impact and a willingness to put resources behind that for a long term initiative. And so it's really more those kinds of practical.

Considerations less so than. You know, the content itself. Now, having said that, you know, depending on what that scripted content is, the issues that you're talking about may have what I'd say is a very light touch versus something that's, much more front and center. Whereas in the documentary world, you're almost always talking about something that's front and center, right?

That issue is palpable. It's real. you're talking about actual, form of journalism. You're exposing these issues perhaps for the first time or in a different way than an audience may be used to. And so there's a real direct alignment with that content, whereas on the scripted side, it may not be as on the nose, but there are, pluses and minuses to, to either side.

You may be reaching a wider audience with that scripted content than you may be with the documentary.

June: And Mending the Line, because I want to talk about that a little bit more because that's also currently on Netflix. and you guys held the number one spot when it was initially released. I really liked that. the storyline where it's dealing with, Veterans helping each other heal through fly fishing. And I particularly liked how the ending credit sequence kind of put it in perspective with real life because you get to see these actual pictures of, Veterans who are fly fishing. and, tying that to the real story. What was the process for the impact for that film?

Meredith: So, that film, first of all, the writer of that script, Steve Camellio, his father was veteran and he was, you know, Really trying to create this film with an eye towards, basing that in reality and on the true stories of veterans today and sort of composite characters in that way.

Uh, we had a number of producers on the film who also had connection to military veterans community. So I think there was always an important intent to make sure that that bridge was always there from this scripted content to. the individuals who are serving this country and their families and friends and the communities around them and what they actually really experience and what some of the needs are.

And so that just drove the entire filmmaking process for Mending the Line. we were very focused on making sure that veterans groups had access to using this film, both in organic ways, as well as. the, financiers behind the film, as well as some of the producers worked very hard on creating opportunities to bring together veterans to talk about the film, to talk about the needs that they had to really also focus on where we are as a country with these less traditional forms of addressing trauma and PTSD. Obviously what the film showcases that not everyone responds to traditional talk therapy Not everybody responds to traditional forms of medication that may be utilized and that we now have a whole world of Alternatives that have shown great efficacy in various populations including veterans And so it was really important to talk about that and showcase this incredible healing power of not just fly fishing, but nature in general and being outdoors and being connected to something larger than yourself.

 Those themes were things that were really important in the conversations after the film as well. And this film was shown all around the world. I mean, it was not just the work that we did here in the U S we took this, for example, to Warsaw and we took this to, communities there and troops there.

And a lot of, screenings that we did were also intentionally done to kind of bridge this military civilian divide where so few people now in our country are really connected to the veterans experience. And it's really important. To be able to bring both sides to the table and actually help civilians who are not in the military may not be as familiar and understanding those experiences to be able to experience that with Veterans as well and so we did a lot of that very intentional work around this film.

June: When I think of certain parts of the storyline, there's definitely that blend of civilian versus military. Like, when you hear the counselor in the group meeting, the way he has to have military terms explained to him, even though he's supposed to be counseling military people. And then with Lucy's storyline, and how she had her own, grief and stuff that she had to work through that was very similar to what the veterans worked through.

was really important, I mean, I will say like a lot of the work I did with Paul Allen was around veterans issues before I ever got involved in Mending the Line. And so I had a lot of experience working with those communities. What I really responded to with Mending the Line and thought was important was Lucy's story, because if you understand kind of what's happened with PTSD, as we talk about it in this country, for so long it was really stigmatized and a lot of ways of thinking about PTSD, Reinforced that in society in general, we were stigmatizing those populations who were in need of help, seeking help, or actually talking about their experiences.

Meredith: And once we began to return our attention to PTSD as a really critical public health issue in this country, there were pros and cons to that. I think on the positive side, like people started talking about it more and understanding within. the military and veterans populations, the impact of that. But I think that there also was a little bit of distancing where, you know, my experience in working on these issues for years is people would associate PTSD just with veterans and war.

 When it's a trauma, designation, it's something that people, who experienced all kinds of trauma can experience and suffer from PTSD and have to learn how to cope with and be treated for. And so I think that one way, again, to sort of bridge this military civilian divide is to make sure that when we're talking about issues like that, that yes, of course are affecting veterans.

It is not only a veterans issue. It's something that, you know, people writ large can experience and do experience in this country. And so showing Lucy's storyline and the parallels between those experiences, I think was really important.

June: And it's kind of the same in Forgiving Johnny as well, because that movie talks about forgiveness. but it also talks about, the California, diversion program that can divert the mentally disabled defendants from incarceration to treatment. but I think the part that hit me strongest was when they talked to the attorney, Noah, and they asked him if there's anything that he needs to be forgiven for.

And I was like, oh, I felt like I was like, this just got really personal. and that's such an amazing connection between something in his life that needs to be forgiven for while also thinking about, Johnny and how he needs to be forgiven as well.

Meredith: Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of the power of storytelling, whatever the issue is, is to sometimes be able to zoom out a little bit and show that the issue we think we're talking about. With one particular population is oftentimes not limited to that one population, right? Like, that may be the primary story that we're actually looking at, but if you are able to step back a little bit, these are human issues, you know, that many are struggling with on a larger level.

And I think being able to help the audience connect to the fact that those issues like you're talking about and forgiving Johnny might live inside of them as well. Is a really powerful tool.

June: Yeah, absolutely.

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June: One of the other films you mentioned, which will be on Netflix by the time this episode releases, is Uncharitable. which exposes the dark side of philanthropy, but also introduces a radical new way of giving. And you mentioned that you were kind of brought on Was it during the process of it being filmed?

Meredith: It was after it was in. Yeah.

June: what was the process like with that film? Because I know there's the book that came out. There's the TED talk that he also does. what was the difference in making this film versus the other two projects are already there and, how did it complement, what was already out?

Meredith: Yeah. I mean, look, Dan has been talking about and speaking about the issues that we address in Uncharitable for decades, right? I mean, these are important concepts. I think Dan has been, on the forefront of really the movement to re envision philanthropy and to. Honestly, look at what's working and what's not working.

And his Ted talk was one of the most commented on Ted talks of all times. What this film did and what Steven Gyllenhaal, our director did particularly well is also humanize this and really tell Dan's story and the personal impacts on him, tell some additional stories to showcase that what happened to Dan and how he came to these ideas was not unique to him, that the problems that we see.

 that occurred in the work that Dan was doing and the way the media treated it and the way that the whole sector looked at this work and sort of the things that we need to start challenging a little more was also a larger issue affecting nonprofits and social change agents the world over.

And so this is what was a little bit different to have 90 minutes, to have a full length film, be able to go deeper into the stories. And again, the human experiences of all of this, I think can connect with an audience in a different way. And then, of course, we had the ability to go a little bit deeper than that, a 10 or 12 minute TED talk does into some of the ideas as well.

 what's been really exciting about that film, for me, really is this, commitment of everyone involved in that project to doing what it takes as long as it takes to make sure that this film changes the issues that we're talking about. And so we're really excited. the film premiered in theaters last fall.

It's going to be coming to streaming June 15th. And then, we have a huge initiative that we're launching right now, five cities, five years, very significant budget. We are taking. The issues that you see in the film and then, 10 levers for change that, Dan has basically put forth from his decades of work and we're doing deep dive work into five communities and there will be filming in a follow up TV series that comes out of that.

And so what we're really looking at is can a community struggling with very significant issues. Collaboratively take these principles really deploy them and actually see big strides in, addressing those seemingly intractable social issues. And so we're really excited about the deep level of work and the supporters that come around this film and the idea that the film was just the beginning, right?

The film was the catalyst for what comes next.

June: Wow, that's amazing. watching this film, it's definitely changed the way that I have thought about charities. and how giving and donations work. The whole way in which the story is structured it's done very well. I remember hearing so much about the Wounded Warrior Project, when, it was a huge organization, and then it kind of just disappeared, and I didn't know why, and I didn't into it, and, you know, seeing their story in this film, I I had no idea.

And I love that it's expanding upon these stories and telling the stories of the people behind these projects that are doing all this great work.

Meredith: Yeah, and fortunately, Wounded Warrior is still with us and doing really good work, but it went through a very critical period of time because of these, inappropriate accusations of improper spending, which, the media kind of hooked on to and didn't really investigate. And also, as Dan kind of challenges in this film, like, You know, why do we have this one set of rules for the for profit sector and one for the non profit sector?

Why aren't we paying people well? Like, why aren't we attracting best in class talent and keeping them because we're able to compensate them appropriately? Why aren't we giving them marketing budgets and the ability and the time and the encouragement to dream big dreams and to be bold and to have the resources to do that?

 that we just really are not, Supporting the sector in a way to meet the challenges that we say we want them to address, right? Like, we are really handcuffing them. And so I'm very excited about this next phase because the film really sets forth, I think, pretty strongly and clearly in a very compelling call to action.

What we're not doing right, how we need to like really completely revision this and then now what we're doing this kind of next phase is actually taking what we believe are the solutions and the tools and actually putting them into practice to try to completely change the narrative and change the way certain communities are addressing this with the hopes of being able to showcase that this really is the better way for us to be looking at the issues that we want to solve in our communities, in this country and globally.

June: Yeah. One of the lines he says is who cares what the overhead is, if these problems can be solved. And I was like, Yeah, absolutely.

Meredith: who cares how much it costs if people are being helped? .

June: we're so willing to spend so much money at these, you know, for profit companies and not blink about how they use their money for political endeavors, but we won't do the same for non profits.

Meredith: right. And these old narratives are just deeply entrenched in society. I just came this morning from a meeting and I was talking to somebody who's funding a new nonprofit that's forming, and he was, you know, proudly telling me that they got the executive director for $100,000 a year. And I said, okay, it's a startup venture.

Like, what do you hope that this executive director can raise? And they said, oh, she's going to have to raise a million dollars. And I said, well, would it have been appropriate to spend $300,000 or $400,000, on an executive director? And he cut me off and said, absolutely not. And I said, but what if that person could raise $50 million? Would it have been better to spend $300,000 more on that executive director to raise $49 million more? And he just sort of stared at me, and then I recommended he watch the film. this was a savvy, philanthropist, savvy business person who's been very successful in tech startups.

We had a whole conversation about what he'd be thinking that way. And in the way that he funds and invests in these startups. And so I think, it's just been this narrative for so long that people aren't necessarily even taking the time and space to think differently about it, and I have seen as we've screened this film for many a funder and philanthropist, like the light bulb go off and the right questions start being asked. So I'm very excited as the whole team is about the potential for this film to radically change the way that we're thinking and practicing in this world.

June: Yeah, and I hope that it does because it's definitely changed the way that I've thought about giving and, reacting to charities. I feel like every time at the checkout, they're like, would you like to round up? And I was like, yes, send them the money. Every time. for viewers who, Watch this. I know you're doing all these other activations and stuff, but for like just the regular person who's watching this how can they get involved?

 What kind of steps should they take after seeing a film like this?

Meredith: I think whether you are a volunteer, a donor, supporter of an organization, whether you're a staff member of an organization or. Jane Doe out there thinking about these issues like, we all need to be a part of changing the narrative around this.

I think just, you know, look, I'm going to say it like as many people as possible. Seeing this film is the first step, right? So sharing this film widely. we feel really strongly that anybody working in the non profit sector needs to make sure that their entire staff, their board, their volunteers, their donors are watching this because that opens up the conversation for those organizations then to talk about what their boldest dreams are and what they would do if they were allowed to pursue those.

With a big idea mentality. And so I think that, anybody can be a part of that by just sharing the film and having those kinds of conversations. But I think just like you're talking about too, whether you're a $5 donor or $5 million donor, like, how do you want to give like? What is your vision for embracing the idea that we can give permission to those in the nonprofit sector to take time, to take risk, to, think big and take the steps that they need to, to try to realize those visions. Right. And how do we support them in that I think is a, are all important pieces of the puzzle.

June: Absolutely.

 So with every interview, I do always end with the same five rapid fire questions. The first one is name one TV show, film, or podcast that has had a profound effect on you and why.

Meredith: Okay. the first thing that comes to mind and probably so many people are listening to this right now. Glennon Doyle, We Can Do Hard Things. It's like such a popular podcast. I love, love, love the vulnerability of that podcast and, so many takeaways from that, so that's something I've been kind of binge listening to for a while now.

June: And, next question, what is the cause closest to your heart?

Meredith: Oh my gosh. I really. It is very hard to pick one cause I deeply invested in a number of different issues. But I would say that I do feel very passionately about environmental causes and sustainability, but I'm also doing a lot of work around gender equity issues as well.

June: And if you could name one nonprofit to lift up right now, what would it be?

Meredith: If I could name one nonprofit, well, I'm going to be shameless and say that what I wish everybody would lift up right now is the Uncharitable Movement. because it's going to lift up every other nonprofit out there.

June: I love it. if you could collaborate with anyone, who would it be?

Meredith: Oh my gosh. There are so many people out there that I would love to collaborate with. And there are also people that I think about that are no longer with us, that, that I draw from quite a bit.

I draw a lot from Maya Angelou and, her words in terms of many of the projects that I work on right now.

I think that in everything that I do, to be totally honest, the people that inspire me the most and the ones that I think are the most important to collaborate with, are those that are affected by the issues that I'm working on. Too often we are, operating up here, you know, whether we're talking about creative teams.

Or if you're talking about policy change and you're not actually including the people who are dealing on the front lines with these issues and I have learned the most been empowered the most and inspired the most from those communities

June: And then the last question, which is a bit silly. if you could choose one song to play every time you walked into a room, what would you choose and why?

Meredith: oh my god, I don't know I don't have a specific song that i'm going to tell you see this is look i'm also 54 Like my memory is going Okay, but I will tell you i'm just You obsessed lately with Pink, who is, not new on the scene, whose music I've listened to for many years here and there, comes and goes.

And not that long ago, I decided to like go back and revisit just because I'd like her as a person. And I'm inspired by sort of her authenticity and her sense of empowerment. And I decided to re listen to all of her music and really pay attention to the lyrics. And so I will say that that's kind of a lot of what's on my playlist these days.

So I've, I've gone back and revived the passion for pink.

June: I love Pink. Like you said, she is an inspiration and is so good.

Meredith: It's so good.

June: like every time I, I hear it, just, you just want to be pumped

Meredith: That's right. She's so kick ass. I'm a parent, I have two boys, but I think all the time about like, if I had girls, I would just be playing that music around them all the time. Like making them watch her, listen to her.

 I think what she's offering to the world right now is much needed just in the way that she is and in her being

June: Absolutely. Total girl empowerment. I love it.

Thank you everyone for listening and thank you Meredith for coming on the show.

Meredith: My pleasure.

June Outro: Thank you for joining me today on this episode. Story for Good is created, hosted, and produced by June Neely. For more information about the organizations or projects talked about in the show, or for media and sponsorship inquiries, visit us at storyforgoodpod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe to the show, and be sure to share it with a friend.